Treating Wax moth and grub

[idg]

Hi all, I have just got round to spinning last autumns honey. The supers have been in my garage since autumn. I notice a bit of wax moth damage to the supers, and 5 or 6 large grubs and a couple of moths. Now the honey is spun I am looking to store the supers until spring but am worried about the moths. I know you can freeze the frames , but I do not have access to a freezer.
My question - is there any other way to treat wet supers to kill moth, grubs eggs etc

 

[pargyle]

Hi all, I have just got round to spinning last autumns honey. The supers have been in my garage since autumn. I notice a bit of wax moth damage to the supers, and 5 or 6 large grubs and a couple of moths. Now the honey is spun I am looking to store the supers until spring but am worried about the moths. I know you can freeze the frames , but I do not have access to a freezer.
My question - is there any other way to treat wet supers to kill moth, grubs eggs etc

Dipel ....

 

[masterBK]

This time of the year put them outside for a few frosty nights. That should sort them. Be aware combs will be brittle and easily fracture when cold.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

nothing like a bit of open feeding to give the bees a boost

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Dipel ....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313845331159

 

[pargyle]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313845331159

Yes... Does the same job and perhaps a bit easier to get hold of at present.

 

[JamezF]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313845331159

I'm really not certain about this, but whilst this treatment is widely available on the likes of ebay, I'm not sure it's legal to use without an appropriate licence.

Last summer I was looking at possible treatments for the caterpillars that were hammering my brassicas and spraying with bacillus thuringiensis(sp?) was one of the recommended methods for doing so, but whilst researching that I came across suggestions online that it isn't approved for non-commercial use in the UK. In some places people were saying that caterpillars were developing immunity due to indiscriminate use in non-commercial settings.

I chickened out of using it. I'm not saying that anyone else should, but equally I'd not want to encourage them to break the law. On the other hand, if someone definitively knows that it's ok to use in the UK then I'd be very pleased to have references to that.

I should note that there are various different forms of baccilus thuringiensis that target different groups of butterfly/moth larvae and I don't know if it might be the case that some are ok to use whilst others aren't so clarification might be useful to me if no-one else.

James

 

[masterBK]

JMB quote "nothing like a bit of open feeding to give the bees a boost"

Strangely bees don't tend to fly at night or come out of the hive during the day at subzero temps. Obviously much hardier bees in Wales than here in Yorkshire! Also I don't store wet supers so there would be nothing to attract bees to rob in "clean" supers. Wet supers don't tend to get infested with wax moths so normally no need to freeze them so Idg has been unlucky in this respect)

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm really not certain about this, but whilst this treatment is widely available on the likes of ebay, I'm not sure it's legal to use without an appropriate licence.

I never realised that so I went to look. Seemingly its available for professional use. In fact everywhere I've looked seems to suggest Bacillus thuringiensis is not licensed for gardeners in any form so Dipel is out too

 

[pargyle]

I never realised that so I went to look. Seemingly its available for professional use. In fact everywhere I've looked seems to suggest Bacillus thuringiensis is not licensed for gardeners in any form so Dipel is out too

Well ... far be it for me to recommend a product that cannot be obtained legally ... but .. Dipel does work as a wax moth treatment. I'm not sure why I am not asked for a licence when I've bought it and indeed what constitutes professional use ... at what point does one become a professional beekeeper. Could that be construed as at the point you are not just keeping bees for your personal consumption of honey and can demonstrate that you are also selling some ?

Like many things in beekeeping (and agriculture/horticulture in general) the law is an ass and does not prescribe in the best interests of the practitioner or potential husbandry of their charges.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well I have Dipel. I’ve never seen it in shops. Mine came from eBay. I never gave it a second thought. I recently bought some melatonin and ( not from eBay) and wondered why it came all the way from USA. Not a single U.K. supplier.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Strangely bees don't tend to fly at night or come out of the hive during the day at subzero temps. Obviously much hardier bees in Wales than here in Yorkshire!

This time of the year put them outside

As usual your 'advice was vague and somewhat erroneous. at 'this time' we are getting reports from all over the country of bees flying freely, no mention anywhere of hard frosts.
The OP has just extracted the frames, so no real chance really of getting the bees to 'clean' the frames is there?

Regardless, whether wet or dry, leaving frames of extracted comb lying around in the open is poor advice, something I would really expect from an absolute beginner

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I never realised that so I went to look. Seemingly its available for professional use

Bit like generic OA then?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I'm really not certain about this, but whilst this treatment is widely available on the likes of ebay, I'm not sure it's legal to use without an appropriate licence.

Last summer I was looking at possible treatments for the caterpillars that were hammering my brassicas and spraying with bacillus thuringiensis(sp?) was one of the recommended methods for doing so, but whilst researching that I came across suggestions online that it isn't approved for non-commercial use in the UK. In some places people were saying that caterpillars were developing immunity due to indiscriminate use in non-commercial settings.

I chickened out of using it. I'm not saying that anyone else should, but equally I'd not want to encourage them to break the law. On the other hand, if someone definitively knows that it's ok to use in the UK then I'd be very pleased to have references to that.

I should note that there are various different forms of baccilus thuringiensis that target different groups of butterfly/moth larvae and I don't know if it might be the case that some are ok to use whilst others aren't so clarification might be useful to me if no-one else.

James

I understand what you are saying but I fail to see any logic or dare I say commonsense in differentiating commercial/non commercial use of the same product. A definition of commercial might also be open to interpretation?

 

[Amari]

Hi all, I have just got round to spinning last autumns honey. The supers have been in my garage since autumn. I notice a bit of wax moth damage to the supers, and 5 or 6 large grubs and a couple of moths. Now the honey is spun I am looking to store the supers until spring but am worried about the moths. I know you can freeze the frames , but I do not have access to a freezer.
My question - is there any other way to treat wet supers to kill moth, grubs eggs etc

My empty BBs and supers with frames of comb are stacked outdoors in my apiary. I pour 80% acetic acid on to absorbent pads on top of the stack under the roof. This controls both wax moth and nosema. Additionally I might burn a sulphur strip in the burner sold by Thorne's @ £9.50..
https://www.bonnymans.co.uk/product-page/acetic-acid-ethanoic-acid-80

 

[JamezF]

I understand what you are saying but I fail to see any logic or dare I say commonsense in differentiating commercial/non commercial use of the same product. A definition of commercial might also be open to interpretation?

I'm really not sure. Reading between the lines I'd guess that "commercial" is effectively "anyone able to obtain a licence for its use", perhaps because it's too onerous for anyone non-commercial to obtain a licence and do whatever paperwork is demanded.

It may be the case that once a licence is obtained, the holder is obliged to report how the product is used (when, how much, what area etc.) and there will be limitations on its use that might, for example, attempt to reduce the likelihood of resistance developing in the target species.

I'd guess that the concern with consumer use might be that it would be used sufficiently indiscriminately that resistance could build up quickly.

This is all guesswork though. Once I discovered that all UK suppliers who sell direct (that I could find) require that the purchaser has a licence I lost interest really. The idea of buying stuff from ebay when it isn't legal for me to buy direct (and may in fact be illegal for the vendor to sell to me if they are also in the UK) makes me a bit apprehensive about what I'm actually going to receive.

James

 

[pargyle]

Well I have Dipel. I’ve never seen it in shops. Mine came from eBay. I never gave it a second thought. I recently bought some melatonin and ( not from eBay) and wondered why it came all the way from USA. Not a single U.K. supplier.

You can find Dipel in the UK but it has gone up in price dramatically and there is a huge disclaimer putting the emphasis for its use very firmly onto the end user.

https://www.agrigem.co.uk/dipel-df-500g
It's a bit of an odd situation as the product is principally intended for the control of caterpillars in food crops - there's a clue in the ,method of application 'Knapsack sprayer' ... the fact that it works effectively as a preventative treatment for wax moths in stored frame was probably only identified as a result of the withdrawal of B401 Certan from the UK by the manufacturer Vita.

https://www.vita-europe.com/beehealth/products/b401_b402/
Once again, the idiotic behaviour and restrictions implemented by the UK Veterinary Medicine Authority seeks to deny the most effective, safest and low cost treatment for a pest that can have such an impact on UK beekeepers. Bureacracy and financial manipulation of the worst kind which simply invites beekeepers to seek to circumvent the situation which the regulatory authority appear to have created (inadvertently, if I was being charitable - deliberately obfustcatory if I was not).

 

[pargyle]

Bit like generic OA then?

Exactly ......

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I fail to see any logic or dare I say commonsense in differentiating commercial/non commercial use of the same product.

I think history has shown time and time again that the 'non commercial'/hobbyist camp tend to skim over the instructions and, not so mindful of cost per unit/affect on profit so correct dosages get ignored as well as other things (we've all done it - "weigh off 3.8g per treatment" becomes "bugger it, call it a teaspoonfull...... and a bit more to make sure") because industry get audited, and not just by accountants by making it 'professional use only' there is less chance of abuse.

 

[Wilco]

I stack mine, put an empty box on top and in it an upturned can. On this put a teaspoon of sulphur per couple of supers on top of a scrap of paper, light paper and put a lid over. Originally in a Hivemaker post.