Top v bottom bee space

[BKF Admin]

I like my bottom bee space as I often put a brood box full of bees on the roof of the hive next door,I could just turn the lid over and place the box on that but its a habbit I have got into.

If I changed now I would kill hundreds of bees with top bee space.

 

[oliver90owner]

A bit like those who can't do without sugar in their tea. Persevere without for three weeks or so and you would then hate sugar in tea. Give top space a good try and you never want to change back and wonder why they (the suppliers) continue to offer them as the 'normal' standard.

Most bees underneath will climb up into the box, so don't normally get crushed when a box is refitted. Those on top require accurate positioning of the top box to prevent any casualties. I usually refit the boxes slightly diagonally and turn them square. Result is no bees get the chop if they are either on the sides or with heads above the parapet.

QEs are a pain, often don't need them in the Dartingtons. They are probably a sure sign that the nest shape is incorrect (too shallow) or they really could do with some more space. Just another of those beekeeper devices designed for thwarting the bees natural responses or squeezing that last bit of honey from the colony.

Regards, RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

when I ran top and botton styles I never gave it much of a thought. If I stood a box on a roof I put it askew so the surfaces touching were minimal.

Again it depends on what you are used to in the habits you develop.

PH

 

[MrB]

Each to their own though.

PH

Exactly!! as was said earlier, personal choice!

 

[Poly Hive]

Of course it is personal choice but if you did a time and motion study you would get a TBS result as there is good reason why the vast majority of hives in the world are TBS.

Most of the BBS advocates most likely have never handled a TBS unit by reason of the vast majority of UK hives are BBS Nats.

Again personal choice if you like, by reason of no experience.

I should add I have both at the moment and no prizes for guessing my preference.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

I'll second that, Poly Hive. One needs the experience to make a sensible choice, or to hand out any advice.

Regards, RAB

 

[RoofTops]

At the risk of going off at a tangent, does anyone else agree that the only bee space the bees really respect is the gap between the frame side and the hive wall? Everywhere else bees can build brace comb, for example, Hoffman frames are supposed to prevent bees building comb between the top bars but in my experience, although this is usually the case, there is always some brace comb built between top bars, especially when I come to do the OA trickle. Ditto, queen excluders. There are learned articles about how certain designs of wooden framed queen excluder when placed the correct way up present the perfect bee space. But has anyone seen a queen excluder which has been in use for a few months that didn't have at least some wax built on it?

 

[MrB]

One needs the experience to make a sensible choice, or to hand out any advice.
Regards, RAB

100%

and have never suggested otherwise.
My reply to the original post was simply to try what they had before deciding to change and therefore gain some of their own experience!

What i disagreed with was:

Top beespace is deff better.

PH

And

KISS all... top is best.

PH

I fully accept that as yet i don't have the experience and am very greatfull for the help and advice i have gained from this forum and bow to the greater knowledge and wisdom of the experienced beeks, but, Just because something works for some people does not mean it is necessarily the best!

End of rant

 

[BKF Admin]

Top bee space(Langstroth):
You dont need a crown board with a wood rim so can even get away with using a piece of plastic sheet or cloth,if you run lots of hives like some do in the states it reduces costs.

Bottom bee space(National):

The construction of a national box is stronger due to the lugs used in construction,It's easy to carry an empty National box as you can hold it one handed by gripping the lugs.

Personal preference really,I have run both and find the small ends on Langstroth frames a pain to work,as PH says you soon get used to it and I am sure I would If I had continued to use them.

 

[GingerNut]

Ah, but you can convert a National to TBS, which gives you the best of both

Which is what I've done

Yours Roy

 

[Tom Bick]

Tom half a bee space would muck up the space on the excluder and the crown board you would have brace comb everywhere.

Hi Onge

Not if you standardize all parts with half bee space so as it all went together the result is a full bee space.

It will be surprising if it has not being tried and abandoned many years ago

 

[Tom Bick]

one other point on trying not to squash bees I was told that if the bees are not cooperating and wont get out of the way when assembling the hive a wedge of wood is placed on one side of the hive so when the super say is placed along the opposite side of the super or bb it can sit on the wedge and then the wedge slowly removed lowering the super and the bees oblige and move out of the way and it really works well it slows things down a bit but happy bees

 

[Onge]

Then all your standardized parts would be non-standard.

Anyway I'm with the top beespace people and yes I have tried both.

 

[tonybloke]

tried both types @ our college apiary, before purchasing my hives.
I also asked several long-time beeks "which would you choose, now, if starting again?"
I got TBS, and framed QE's.

 

[Hawklord]

...and framed QE's.

Surely Queen excluders are framed regardless of whether top or bottom bee space is used?

 

[oliver90owner]

Surely Queen excluders are framed regardless of whether top or bottom bee space is used?

Why?

RAB

 

[Hombre]

Framed ones are, unframed ones - are a lot cheaper and very popular, particularly the plastic ones.

 

[victor meldrew]

Surely Queen excluders are framed regardless of whether top or bottom bee space is used?

Why?

RAB

Too true but be aware of the spacing ,it differs on each side of a framed Q/E.
Shallow side down on TBS brood box, deep side down on BBS .

John Wilkinson

 

[Hawklord]

The frame provides the bee space. With top Bee Space the frame needs to be on top of the excluder, and with Bottom Bee Space it needs to go on the bottom of the excluder.

 

[tonybloke]

the slotted zinc QE's aren't framed, that's the distinction I was making.