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[Norm]

This thread and the characters involved remind me why I have left the biobees forum. Evangelising and spouting dogma are not for me. No one person is right here. There are more than one way to keep bees and it is up to the individual to decide for themself how they should do so. The shape of the box has nothing to do with natural beekeeping. If Finman wants to keep bees by dosing them with Oxalic, taking the maximum amount of honey and feeding back sugar, it is up to him. He has made that successful for him and achieved his goals by it. If someone else wants to keep bees in a skep without treatments and take none of their honey, that is their perogative too. Neither is right or wrong to do so. Neither do they have the right to tell someone else that their's is the right and only way.

 

[tonybloke]

good post Norm!!

 

[Brosville]

silicon? - herrrumph, I'm a "small and perky" fan myself, but then I do tend to favour the "natural" approach in most things............

 

[victor meldrew]

This thread and the characters involved remind me why I have left the biobees forum. Evangelising and spouting dogma are not for me. No one person is right here. There are more than one way to keep bees and it is up to the individual to decide for themself how they should do so. The shape of the box has nothing to do with natural beekeeping. If Finman wants to keep bees by dosing them with Oxalic, taking the maximum amount of honey and feeding back sugar, it is up to him. He has made that successful for him and achieved his goals by it. If someone else wants to keep bees in a skep without treatments and take none of their honey, that is their perogative too. Neither is right or wrong to do so. Neither do they have the right to tell someone else that their's is the right and only way.

Could be a touch of "kettle calling pan " syndrome .
You own post has little dictatorial edge to it ?
Still I'd miss you if you left this forum .

John Wilkinson

 

[Norm]

Could be a touch of "kettle calling pan " syndrome .
You own post has little dictatorial edge to it ?
Still I'd miss you if you left this forum .

John Wilkinson

Aww! Thanks John! My long standing profile message (which I know you have visited) on the BBKA forum states:-

I don't believe anyone has the right to tell you how you should keep your bees and I am certainly not going to do so. What I do want to do however is perhaps show anyone with an interest that there are ways other than the conventional to keep them. A way, in my view that is both kinder on the bees and more wholesome for the beekeeper.

I have kept bees off and on since 1986 mostly in British Nationals. I have experienced Apis Florea in Saudi, kept bees in 3 different countries all with different seasons and climates. I have nothing against the National, in fact I still have a couple. I don't think it is the style of box that is important, it is the manner in which we keep them. I now mainly keep bees in Top Bar Hives, both horizontal & vertical, they are for my convenience and I like them. This is my hobby, I don't want to sell honey or nucs or queens, I get enough out of this pastime with the enjoyment of watching my bees and tasting pure totally unadulterated honey.

That message has been on there more or less since the BBKA new forum started.

 

[Finman]

.
I can only say that top bar people are odd folks.

My collaque byes stocks but never sell them. I just bought Alfa Laval.

 

[davethegas]

Have you kept the Fiat?.......no I wouldn't have either. Imprezza or bust...Lol...Just kidding.

 

[davethegas]

Oh sorry you said flat not Fiat, things are not as bad as I first thought then. ho-ho. All the best Finman.

 

[Somerford]

hmmm.

Just my view, and I apologise if any readers are offended, but then they could self censure and just close their eyes !




they say opinions are like *rseholes, everybody has one. Unfortunately some people have bigger ones than others.


Look, I can kind of get the banter between differing views and the joshing that ensues but lets try and keep off labelling people as 'odd' just because they have chosen a particular route ?

regards

S

 

[Brosville]

I prefer "crank"- highly efficient, causes revolutions.........

 

[Finman]

.
This was a nice chat. I found many new real caveman here.- Wheel inventors...

...................

 

[Finman]

.

 

[wightbees]

that made me laugh Finman

 

[victor meldrew]

Finman "You are awful, but I like you ". (Dick Emmery r.i.p.)

John Wilkinson

 

[oliver90owner]

One simple question: How is the inter-comb distance set in a TBH? Some things are ignored when it suits, I think...

I posted that 3 pages ago and it has been unanswered. Maybe I should rest my case at this point rather than stir up some, as I did with a very carefully worded post. Yes Brosville, I could have been likelyreferring to your comments in the N***tron thread on pimping your bees, but not necessarily so.

Like I said 3 pages ago, I have nothing against TBHs, but not so keen on the Warres.

RAB

 

[susbees]

Top bar distances are adapted by the bee's personal slave (us). Listen to the bees.

I frequent four bee forums and the same characters do tend to crop up with varying degrees of open-mindedness and clashes of personality :/

Two small points: I am bored to tears with the big-muscle attitude that just because a particular forumer has many hives (and used to breed five bee types together and was surprised when it went wrong...as a biologist) he considers himself superior to everyone else. If it wasn't for big multi-nationals the world wouldn't be in the horrendous mess we are all in now. Go figure.

And the five hives in one place comment is pure rubbish. Finman you have absolutely no idea what the forage and topography is around here or how many beekeepers are in the area.

I am open-minded and have two commercial hives for comparison. They are a nightmare to manipulate compared to the top bars and the bees do their level best to brace comb to improve their environment. Anyhow, I'd like to investigate a Modified Dartington .

And as for silicon. It figures. How very sad. Natural comb as nature intended will always make welfare sense over forced labour.

Hi Norm btw...can you PM me your bee aggression scoring if you don't mind...got a bit of research in mind .

 

[Brosville]

"oliver90owner" - I'm somewhat at a loss as to what point you are trying to make - lest it may have passed you by, several people have been posting in this thread, and I really can't understand your implication that I've somehow ignored or sidestepped your question, and your asterisked faux-coy references to posts I made on the Navitron forum...........(or, to be frank, it's connection with the price of fish.........) - whaaaa?

 

[oliver90owner]

Top bar distances are adapted by the bee's personal slave (us).

Ahh - so it is 'forced' on the bees; whatever the TBHkeeper thinks is right for them. I see. I somehow thought that might be the case.

BTW, IF you are referring to Finman, leave him alone. I think he is a fine fellow and makes a large positive contribution to the forum; furthermore the forum rules say 'play the ball not the player' or something similar.

If you are that bored you have the option to go and get unbored somewhere else.

It is not big multi nationals (or even small multinationals if, in fact, they exist by the definition), it is people who are to blame - you, me and the rest of the oversized population on this small over exploited planet. Go figure.

Open minded? Your review did not seem as balanced as I would expect from someone with an open mind. Feel free to investigate anything you might want

RAB

 

[Roy S]

Ho hum, all this thread has seemed to do is fuelled the us versus them attitude of some beekeepers.
It seems that you are using this thread as an open invitation to randomly rant against civilisation as it stands, susbees.
As for giant multi nationals ruining the world I beg to differ to some extent. A lot of the damage is also done by small groups on a large scale, like slash and burn agriculture in the Amazon region for instance. deforrestation of african regions for firewood and many others. It is the greed of ALL mankind that has brought about this situation.

As for brace comb making your commercials a nightmare to manipulate, then clearly you're doing something wrong with your beespacing!!!, but hey with two commercials you're an expert on removeable frame hives now right???

Sorry if it sounds disrespectful, but Norm comes on here and remains calm, and openminded, and I listen with interest in most of his posts, same can be said of Brosville (his post being interesting but at times certainly not calm ).

But yours seem to be deliberately inflammatory posts aimed at winding up anyone who does not agree with your philosophy. How about chilling out and helping your cause and not alienating it from most beekeepers?

And by the way....as brosville said you can still use nationals/commercials with your own beeswax sheets, as I do when I can.

 

[Brosville]

Well, I'll answer it, although I still fail to why you seem to find it so important and in some way relevant to the main thrust of this thread......
The general recommendation is to give spacings of 32-35 mm between the "starter strips" in a top bar hive (from memory it's 36 mm in a Warré). Nothing is "set in stone" and many people on another site regularly talk of having different sizes in the same hive, the adoption of spacers etc........ 35mm throughout works fine for me........
And I think I'm probably nearing "what you're on about" - you seem to be suggesting that in some way that we're "controlling" the bees' behaviour which you seem to find not agreeing with what you perceive as "our" ethos.....
There are no hard and fast rules, people experiment - certainly a foundation-free hive makes it easier for the bees to "do their own thing" (as can be seen when they decide to build comb "across")
So, I hope that's given you the answer you were demanding, and for reasons that escape me found of such earth-shattering importance.......
ALL beekeeping is by definition, UNnatural, as I've said before, I'm trying to find a way that gives the bees as natural a life as possible, and works hand-in-hand with nature, rather than bludgeoning it into doing my will - if it means that I do not place "yield" high on my list of priorities, so be it!

And just to make sure there's no chance of error, I did not "ignore" the point deliberately, but still fail to see where it fits in with the price of fish..........