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[psafloyd]

I am one who sees things from the same angle as Brosville. I think you only have to look at the current plight of the honey bee worldwide to see where the last 140 years of framed hives has taken us.

But such a position makes no allowance for the changes to the 'natural' or farmed landscape and the prevalence of carcinogens and other naughty chemicals.

Where might we have been with framed hives and NO DDT, etc?

 

[psafloyd]

"the winter food is changed to cheaper sugar. Winter food is needed that they survive over winter" - the operative word here is "survive" - not "live healthily and naturally" as they would do using their own natural honey stores (bee problems probably have a lot to do with compromised immune systems, feed them empty calories instead, you certainly aren't doing your best to help them maintain a healthy system)

"You need a vivid imagination when you say pesticide-riddled. You do not know what you are talking" - it is virtually impossible to buy foundation which is not full of chemical residues - that's an inescapable fact!

You really can't seem to enable your "47 years of experience" brain round the concept that you keep bees for one reason only, to exploit their products for money, and that there are other people who aren't "in it for the money", but instead are seeking gentler ways of husbandry geared more towards the bees' welfare - I am totally at a loss as to why you should be so negative..........

It is also true that new comb drawn by the bees may become contaminated by whatever they come into contact with.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

It is also true that new comb drawn by the bees may become contaminated by whatever they come into contact with.

True, and your point is???

I believe that we should be doing all we can within our control, to minimise and reduce the stress levels our bees are put under.

Such measures will mean that any stresses they encounter naturally, such as encountering chemicals, they will be in the best possible shape to deal with.

The bees will encounter problems of various kinds. No one can, or should want to shield them from that. What we should strive for, is healthy bees. And IMO, letting them build their own comb is one step towards that. That they might encounter contaminants, does not come into the picture or agenda of what the beekleeper can help with. It is better that he/she does everything they can to ensure that their own natural problems are not exacerbated, by undue stresses caused by greed, neglect and generally an unwholesome motivation(s) for 'keeping' bees.

 

[Dishmop]

There are more than one way to keep bees and it is up to the individual to decide for themself how they should do so

and up to the bees as well....

I built a Warre hive in readiness for collecting a nuc.

Boxes were standing in garden, not assembled as hive.....Some bees took a liking to one of the boxes and decided to move in..... I had to assembe hive a bit quick. They didnt suddenly swarm in from somewhere, just drifted in during the day......

Three boxes with top bars but only one box had any bars with a starter foundation....
Within less than a week five of those bars in the topmost box had a lot of comb built on them,,,, in fact I will be brave enough even as a newbee to bet that they had built more comb than if there had been frames with foundation in the box.
I think biggest problem with TBH hives is that you cant keep pulling bars out for inspection like you can with frames.
Next year I am going to experiment with a couple of bars fitted with some wire mesh as a starer to see if bees will build comb on it......

 

[ElectricBlueBee]

I intend to try and use/learn as many types of hive as is possible, through getting them myself, or through other beekeepers willing to show me. Then i'll make a decision based on my own feelings and ideas. Each to their own.

There's a vicious old git at our association that rubbishes anyone elses view that is different from his own and i never want to be like that. If someone wants to keep bees in their hat as they walk around then i say they should be allowed to. The bees clear off when they don't like something anyway. If they didn't like TBH, Nationals, Commercials etc then we wouldn't be using any of them.

 

[BKF Admin]

There's a vicious old git at our association that rubbishes anyone elses view that is different from his own

I think many association's have one or two members like that.
Its a shame because everyone ends up doing the same thing to keep the peace..

 

[Dishmop]

I think the Warre is a good idea, but simply fails because of the unknown disease status of the system - note 'system' . That includes all the things around the hive that unfortunately have changed greatly in the last 80 years or so.

RAB
Why do you feel the Warre hive be more prone to disease?

 

[Brosville]

On the question of disease and the Warre, it is often wrongly assumed that the relatively "hands off" management style practised with them would lead to more disease, when actually the opposite would appear to be true - here's an article from David Heaf explaining - http://www.dheaf.plus.com/warrebeekeeping/heaf_replies_to_davies.pdf

 

[Dishmop]

If you want to try TBH Warre hives there's no need to built one. Just use whatever box you have and dont put any frames in....Just top bars.

A Warre hive has 8 bars equally spaced but from what I can see of the long type of TBH the bars are not spaced at all, but the bars are wider than the Warre ones, so surely that means that spacing is not crucial, because the bees know best how to do it.... although of course you have to have spacing on the Warre bars for bees to move up/down between boxes.
Earlier in the year I put an eke on the top box of Warre hive to test how well a zip lock bag worked for feeding. When I looked a few days later they had eaten the syrup and started to build comb hanging down from the canvas bottom of the quilt box.....I built another deeper eke, put that underneath and left them to it..... If the comb detached and falls off.....so what? No loss. They still have anything that was in it and will chuck out anything they dont want.

 

[Brosville]

Apart from other obvious differences, the Kenyan top bar hives have no "gap", and are usually built on 35 or 36mm centre-to centre measurements, in a Warre they need access to above/below, so the bars are "gapped" -12mm gaps and 24mm wide bars (giving pretty much the same measurements between combs)

 

[oliver90owner]

Dishmop, you have copied my post from #49, yet still you have not actually read it, or don't really understand the language, or have read into it more than I actually wrote. Or maybe it is me that got the wordin g wrong.

Either way it is you or me being thick here. Please enlighten me of where, in the post you have so very carefully copied (as a quote), I have indicated that Warres are more prone to disease. I will then apologise for suggesting it was you.

RAB

 

[Dishmop]

Dishmop, you have copied my post from #49, yet still you have not actually read it, or don't really understand the language, or have read into it more than I actually wrote. Or maybe it is me that got the wordin g wrong.

Either way it is you or me being thick here. Please enlighten me of where, in the post you have so very carefully copied (as a quote), I have indicated that Warres are more prone to disease. I will then apologise for suggesting it was you.

RAB

My apologies Rab.
I was reading thro the whole thread quickly and at first did interpret it that you meant more disease. I wrote a reply, read your post again and realised I was mistaken, but the phone rang and I forgot to delete "why" when I came back and submitted the post.
So please therefore read "do you" and not " why do you".

 

[Appledown]

On the question of disease and the Warre, it is often wrongly assumed that the relatively "hands off" management style practised with them would lead to more disease, when actually the opposite would appear to be true - here's an article from David Heaf explaining - http://www.dheaf.plus.com/warrebeekeeping/heaf_replies_to_davies.pdf

Some people say that because they dont medicate so much the stronger survive more and so the become more disease resistent. Same with varroa

Roger