Top bar

[dolbz]

.
My success measure is honey. Of course you may keep bees like you think but if you want to keep bees at top level,
top bar is not that level.

Sorry but not everyone has the same measure. There's no reason to think people aren't keeping bees to a 'top level' just because your yard-stick is different. Change the measure to bee welfare and TBH might well be much more 'top level' than the hives you keep.

 

[Norm]

.
How often you have got from top bar 100 kg honey or 150 kg?

My success measure is honey. Of course you may keep bees like you think but if you want to keep bees at top level,
top bar is not that level.
.

Take a look at the Perone top bar hive. Here is a report in Spanish of a huge crop of honey in a cold region of Argentina.

Oscar Perone has a great deal of beekeeping experience and he has also come to the conclusion that TBH's are best.

 

[Finman]

.
I did not ask to tell Argentina top yields. What you have got?

We have in Finland 1 - 1,5 month yield season. Do you get 100 kg honey in one month.

 

[SixFooter]

A Ken TBH also takes up a lot more room than a conventional hive. Roughly twice as much space - and for for a 1/5th (ish) of the yield.

 

[Brosville]

-a "Super Perone" footprint is around the same as many conventional hives.... and a Warre is considerabubbly smaller than all of 'em

 

[Norm]

.
I did not ask to tell Argentina top yields. What you have got?

We have in Finland 1 - 1,5 month yield season. Do you get 100 kg honey in one month.

Well if I did as you do and rob all of the bees honey and feed them back a poor substitute, maybe my yields would be comparable but I don't do that. Others have said, we measure success not by the amount of honey we take, but you will never understand that concept Finman.

 

[Finman]

but you will never understand that concept Finman.

I have studied biology in Helsinki University, and I have had bees 47 years. Fault is not in my head if I do not understand.

"rob all of the bees honey and feed them back a poor substitute" that is my basic idea.

 

[Mike a]

Finman why not test your theory and build yourself a TBH and see how it compares when you have two evenly sized colonies in each hive type...?

I think you will be pleasantly surprised although not converted. Don't knock it until you've tried it seriously !

 

[Finman]

Finman why not test your theory and build yourself a TBH and see how it compares when you have two evenly sized colonies in each hive type...?
:

There is no theory. What do I do with THB?
It is expencive, not suitable to migrating beekeeping, difficult to extract, long hives swarm more.

TBH is just a toy.

Why I should take into juse that way of beekeeping?

I know alot of gardeners who do not use artificial fertilation. I like it and I am good in it. Why I should take into use such hobby methods which are based on lack of knowledge?



.

 

[susbees]

There is no theory. What do I do with THB?
It is expencive, not suitable to migrating beekeeping, difficult to extract, long hives swarm more.

TBH is just a toy.

Why I should take into juse that way of beekeeping?

I know alot of gardeners who do not use artificial fertilation. I like it and I am good in it. Why I should take into use such hobby methods which are based on lack of knowledge?



.

47 years experience and a biologist, but totally closed to TBH and similar. Hmm. I am a scientist too.

As a biologist you will know that migrating bees all over the place is unnatural, spreads disease and stresses the insects. Also, that framed beekeeping is totally unnatural...why the brace comb? Why all that winter feed?

Expensive? That is ridiculous. A TBH costs less than a third of a basic National and none of that artificial and potentially pesticide-riddled foundation and expense for frames.

Long hives swarm more? Please quote your peer reviewed sources and I will be very interested to read them.

Next, as a biologist you know that you must set up fully comparative experiments. And be open to the results.

Plants do not care if you mess with them. Bees do and we must live with the results.

 

[Finman]

47 years experience and a biologist, but totally closed.

I will not argue with 4 hive owners. Don't teach duck to swim!

 

[Finman]

Expensive? That is ridiculous. A TBH costs less than a third of a basic National and none of that artificial and potentially pesticide-riddled foundation and expense for frames.

Long hives swarm more? Please quote your peer reviewed sources and I will be very interested to read them.

Next, as a biologist you know that you must set up fully comparative experiments. And be open to the results.

Plants do not care if you mess with them. Bees do and we must live with the results.

Find out yourself......... I need not convince you.

My first hives were longhives 47 years ago. I kept them 3 years and then I burned them.

Natural and nartural. --- Nothing natural in beekeeping....
.

 

[Somerford]

Basically, Incatacus, as you can see there are lots of opinions on the TBH - for some it is the devil personified (along with those TBH beekeepers) for others a novelty, for others a way of life. The great thing about beekeeping is there are many ways to 'skin a cat', no one is ever right, but sometimes wrong. Even me. (LOL) I run a Beehaus, 14x12, and nationals, my neighbour 14x12s and nationals, a beek up the road mainly uses commercials and another only TBH and Warre. Who's right ? Well it is a matter of choice and opinion.

If like Brosville, you want to keep bees to encourage natural swarming, natural living and a hands off approach, you don't haveto have a TBH - this can be done in any hive, but the TBH lends itself to it as it is designed more along natural comb shapes and is a low carbon hive (recycle, reuse etc). If you want honey, then for ease of extraction, I would personally always use wired foundation in frames. You could pop a super on to the TBH if the dimensions are correct and then you'd have the best of both worlds, but again up to you.

The great thing about this forum is there are many differing opinions, many different hives being used, and some definite passions either way (along with some that always will have you think they know best...

Happy beekeeping !

S

 

[oliver90owner]

As I see it. Finman needs to make a living. He does that the best way he knows in his particular circumstances. TBHs would not be appropriate for him in his situation.

I have yet to see a commercial enterprise which uses TBHs in the UK. OK for Africa, maybe.

I await, without holding my breath, for someone to enlighten me otherwise.

RAB

 

[Somerford]

Olls, you actually touch on an interesting point...

In Africa, one of the reasons TBHs have taken off is two fold. Firstly they are cheap to make and this is a real issue for small communities trying to become more self sufficient. The second is that for most of Africa, the wax is just as, if not more important than the honey (for use in candles etc) so to melt down a wild comb makes more sense than a comb with manufactured foundation in it.

so, for the African model, TBHs do appear to have a place......


.....now if wax prices suddenly shot up in the UK, we would all be scraping wax back to the mid-rib on our combs....just like the propolis bubble a few years back !

S

 

[Finman]

.
I understand your top bar system. You have so extremely expencive frames that wife will not give money for it. Your frame price is 3 fold compared to Finland. You may bye a 100 euros table saw from Lidl but it is too laborous.

Then you are eager to burn your hives. EFB will be vanished by changing the queen but you want to burn them.

We have midd summer fires too but we burn tree branches.

 

[Incatatus]

thanks for the "answer" somerford, great to get so many opinions, didn`t think a simple question would go to 4 pages either

 

[Brosville]

What is the man wittering about? Expensive? - Pish tosh and rhubarb..........
Just finishing off my latest 4' wide top bar hive - planks from local market - £4, legs - half a gravel board £2, roof- offcuts £2, plus 6 recycled printing plates - (bought 80 for £5) - about 40p, top bars, cut from 34mm width wood strips from local market £3 - wire netting for varroa floor - old fireguard (£1), 2 "t" hinges (market) £1. String for starter strips 10p, linseed oil 50p, beeswax- effectively "free"....... glue and screws, under £1 - about £15 all-in.....
Use old secondhand table saw (£5 from boot sale) powered from inverter running from solar-panel powered battery banks in shed, electric screwdriver and drill similarly charged............
And for the last time - for me, this is a hobby, to enjoy keeping bees, helping a now-endangered species survive, to give the bees the very best chance of survival, and as far as possible to do so in a way that mimics and works hand-in-hand with nature, rather than attempting to bludgeon it into doing my will. A little honey and beeswax is a welcome bonus, and can affirm that the honey produced is simply stunning in flavour, and tends to elicit rhapsodising responses from those that taste it...........

 

[Teebeeaitch]

I am one who sees things from the same angle as Brosville. I think you only have to look at the current plight of the honey bee worldwide to see where the last 140 years of framed hives has taken us.

 

[Mike a]

I'm a little less vocal than Brosville and not so eloquently spoken but with him.

I don't really have a problem with honey farmers who demand a rich crop or the colony must be requeened or destroyed as they make me laugh.

Thankfully though more and more bee keepers are hobbyists and care more about their colonies well being instead of their profit margins and squeezing every last drop of honey out of them before replacing it with sugar water but I do find it funny that the honey farmers moan the loudest when they lose colonies over winter and of course its never their fault or their management methods despite how ever many years they quote they have been keeping bees.