Top Bar Hives

[Talking With Bees]

Evening all.

An Alaskan beekeeper has just written a rather lovely review of Top Bar Hives if you are interested.

Do you guys agree with his thoughts?

 

[Brosville]

Not a lot - he's wildly wrong on some things, not least the following - "Top Bars require more regular care and attention. Because the combs are foundationless, the bees may curve the comb on the bar, which causes problems down the road, including awkward comb attachments. Top Bar beekeepers tend to visit their hives more regularly to handle these and other issues. For a beginning beekeeper, the commitment can be a bit much" - herrumph! -in my view that shows ignorance about the usual methods of running a top bar hive - in my experience, most top bar owners choose not to "faff", and subject them to over-manipulation or intrusive and unnecessary inspections.
"You can alleviate this issue by harvesting and inspecting more frequently, which most Top Bar keepers do" - not any that I know of! Most top bar users will take the odd comb or two of honey as and when the bees can spare it, but certainly don't tend to inspect more frequently (or as intrusively)

"Other issues can include the inability to reuse wax" - so what? - to my mind using nice fresh wax is eminently more sensible, and far less of a disease risk.......

Less productive than a Langstroth? - certainly, "kenyan" Top bar hives really aren't designed to maximise honey production, but I don't view that as a drawback - as for the "size" criticism, don't faff about with a 3' hive, go for 4'!

Sorry, not a particularly accurate or erudite review...........hardly surprising as there is praise a'plenty for overpriced garish placcy beercoolers elsewhere on the site (and flogs them!)

 

[TBRNoTB]

Brosville
What do you do for a living? No don't answer that, after all what's it got to do with bee keeping!

 

[Brosville]

?? - I fail to understand your point

 

[justme]

Not a lot - he's wildly wrong on some things, not least the following - "Top Bars require more regular care and attention. Because the combs are foundationless, the bees may curve the comb on the bar, which causes problems down the road, including awkward comb attachments. Top Bar beekeepers tend to visit their hives more regularly to handle these and other issues. For a beginning beekeeper, the commitment can be a bit much" - herrumph! -in my view that shows ignorance about the usual methods of running a top bar hive - in my experience, most top bar owners choose not to "faff", and subject them to over-manipulation or intrusive and unnecessary inspections.
"You can alleviate this issue by harvesting and inspecting more frequently, which most Top Bar keepers do" - not any that I know of! Most top bar users will take the odd comb or two of honey as and when the bees can spare it, but certainly don't tend to inspect more frequently (or as intrusively)

"Other issues can include the inability to reuse wax" - so what? - to my mind using nice fresh wax is eminently more sensible, and far less of a disease risk.......

Less productive than a Langstroth? - certainly, "kenyan" Top bar hives really aren't designed to maximise honey production, but I don't view that as a drawback - as for the "size" criticism, don't faff about with a 3' hive, go for 4'!

Sorry, not a particularly accurate or erudite review...........hardly surprising as there is praise a'plenty for overpriced garish placcy beercoolers elsewhere on the site (and flogs them!)

I dont have any but from what I've seen, with the first 2 paragraphs:.)

 

[ratcatcher]

yup, have left a reply on your site

 

[madasafish]

I just speed read the CONS section only.

More frequent inspection? Male cow excrement.

Curved combs, combs sticking to walls ? Very rare in my experience.

Lack of frames? Yes you have to be careful.. But anyone with any dexterity can rotate a TBH bar in a horizontal frame to look at both sides.. easy.

Difficulty of sharing equipment across hives? More male cow excrement. I make all my own hives from pallets , and the topbars and combs are interchangeable.. Even the follower boards are! Sure the follower boards have gaps: my carpentry and warped pallets see to that.Easily fixed with cardboard and glue in 2 minutes.

Having read the article, I suspect the main comment is the author's own words:

"This past spring, I convinced my dad to join in the fun. He retired this year and was looking for a hobby. Last fall, he joined me at the hives during an inspection, and the experience stayed with him. But dad being dad and entering retirement, we both knew that lifting 100-pound supers just wasn’t going to work. Hence Top Bars. He’s been keeping two Top Bars since April, and I’ve helped him several times in his hives. Unfortunately, that’s the limit of my experience, and it’s admittedly brief. Still, it is experience"….


What more can I say? The author says it all.

 

[psafloyd]

"Other issues can include the inability to reuse wax" - so what? - to my mind using nice fresh wax is eminently more sensible, and far less of a disease risk.......

I like the sound of a TBH and as for reusing the wax, surely it is perfect as it is not all that dirty, only being used for a portion of the season? It is also what they have produced themselves, so essentially 'organic' in as much as wax can be an organic product...

 

[Brosville]

Perhaps I should have been more pedantic, a touch more precise, and written "less of a disease and contamination risk" as if you reuse wax, even from your own hives you have the danger of re-introducing last season's chemical traces they'd picked up when foraging (most of us aren't lucky enough to be out of foraging range of agricultural chemicals)

 

[Talking With Bees]

Many thanks for your comments, I have added excerpts at the end of the post.

 

[tonybloke]

Perhaps I should have been more pedantic, a touch more precise, and written "less of a disease and contamination risk" as if you reuse wax, even from your own hives you have the danger of re-introducing last season's chemical traces they'd picked up when foraging (most of us aren't lucky enough to be out of foraging range of agricultural chemicals)

and not to mention the even wider range of poisons used by gardeners

 

[Little John]

Not a bad article - I don't see any BIG issues ...

The reality is that Top Bars Hives ARE usually inspected more often than conventional hives, but that's because TBH's tend to be favoured by beginners, who indulge in 'wanna take a look' more often than seasoned veterans. But that's nothing to do with the hive's design, per se.

It's easy enough to re-use wax, if you're so minded (I do, as a LOT of energy has gone into making it). If you want to see how to make plain foundation, see:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46R1QzMTHIk[/ame]

A more comprehensive article, including how to affix it to Top Bars, see:
http://www.beesfordevelopment.org/uploads/Low cost Foundation _21_.pdf

(BTW - don't bother flaming me about this, I won't take the bait)

The only thing which hacks me off a little in that article, is the usual misleading picture of 'natural elipsoid comb', as if this represents the final comb shape. Which is misleading - and most people promoting Top Bar use indulge in this visual argument.

LJ

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Hmmm ... Sorrry, but I disagree that TBH's are inspected more often than conventional hives. I thought it was the 'seasoned veterans' who pulled their conventional hives apart every 7 or 9 days.

 

[madasafish]

Not a bad article - I don't see any BIG issues ...

The reality is that Top Bars Hives ARE usually inspected more often than conventional hives, but that's because TBH's tend to be favoured by beginners, who indulge in 'wanna take a look' more often than seasoned veterans. B
LJ

Hmm so based on my personal experience with TBHs, National Hives should be inspected every fortnight. Funnily our Association apiary - all nationals - is inspected weekly.

I must be doing something wrong.

 

[ratcatcher]

Hmmm ... Sorrry, but I disagree that TBH's are inspected more often than conventional hives. I thought it was the 'seasoned veterans' who pulled their conventional hives apart every 7 or 9 days.

I agree, my top bar hive has not been opened in weeks,only observed at the entrance,

Hmm so based on my personal experience with TBHs, National Hives should be inspected every fortnight. Funnily our Association apiary - all nationals - is inspected weekly.

I must be doing something wrong.

surely association apairys will be inspected more often then normal, as if anything like ours, they have national hives x 4 for beginners to practise with

 

[TBRNoTB]

Not a lot - he's wildly wrong on some things, not least the following - "Top Bars require more regular care and attention. Because the combs are foundationless, the bees may curve the comb on the bar, which causes problems down the road, including awkward comb attachments. Top Bar beekeepers tend to visit their hives more regularly to handle these and other issues. For a beginning beekeeper, the commitment can be a bit much" - herrumph! -in my view that shows ignorance about the usual methods of running a top bar hive - in my experience, most top bar owners choose not to "faff", and subject them to over-manipulation or intrusive and unnecessary inspections.
"You can alleviate this issue by harvesting and inspecting more frequently, which most Top Bar keepers do" - not any that I know of! Most top bar users will take the odd comb or two of honey as and when the bees can spare it, but certainly don't tend to inspect more frequently (or as intrusively)

"Other issues can include the inability to reuse wax" - so what? - to my mind using nice fresh wax is eminently more sensible, and far less of a disease risk.......

Less productive than a Langstroth? - certainly, "kenyan" Top bar hives really aren't designed to maximise honey production, but I don't view that as a drawback - as for the "size" criticism, don't faff about with a 3' hive, go for 4'!

Sorry, not a particularly accurate or erudite review...........hardly surprising as there is praise a'plenty for overpriced garish placcy beercoolers elsewhere on the site (and flogs them!)

It was a reference to everyone has to make a living, no need to be sarcastic about it. That's why I said "don't answer that" it has nothing to do with anyone!