Time to contamination

[The Apprentices]

Please excuse me if this subject has been done before or point me towards its existence.

The time it takes for a clean colony to be exposed to the Varroa mite is as little as three day according to the time searved beeks I have spoken to.

So where are the beasties hiding.

Has anyone got information as to how long a mite can actually survive off of its host and if there are any other predators that could bring about their demise whilst in limbo on a flower say while they are waiting for the next taxi ride to the Hilton.

Has anyone done research into where Varroa can be found in cash crops, sorry for all the questions as a beginner but the problems normally create reactions to which there are always solutions even in nature.

When Adam did his initial breeding program in isolation why did he choose the genetics of the outcome we see today, surely he would have gone for a closer relative to our black bee a Carnica perhaps.

I'm all ears with my hands in the air if I speak out of compass.

 

[Reentrant]

Drones visit other hives so they could be a vector.

 

[Chris Luck]

Are there any "clean colonies"?

Chris

 

[Skyhook]

The reason he was breeding a new bee was that the native bees had been all but wiped out by acarine. Beekeepers were buying in italian stock to replace it which proved largely resistant with many other good qualities including temperament- the obvious choice to base his programme on I would have thought. Remember the concept of the ecosystem wasn't really thought of then as we do today

 

[Hivemaker.]

Are there any "clean colonies"?

Chris

Regards varroa,yes.

 

[Chris Luck]

Perhaps you could be so kind as to clarify where and how in Europe as there seems to be conflicting information about this?

Thanks, Chris

 

[Hivemaker.]

Perhaps you could be so kind as to clarify where and how in Europe as there seems to be conflicting information about this?

Thanks, Chris

Some of the islands,Colonsay is one i believe.
Isles of Scilly apparently.

Oh, and i forgot HP,who is in the middle of Brum.

 

[Chris Luck]

Ahhhh, I see. I'm just trying to understand the statement "The time it takes for a clean colony to be exposed to the Varroa mite is as little as three day according to the time searved beeks I have spoken to." and wondered how this comes about?

Chris

 

[The Apprentices]

Regards varroa,yes.

I have heard that there are a few colonies on some of the Highland islands that are still clear.

Now if the early dartmoor mixes were resistant or could live in symbiosis with the then current beasties, then why the sudden spreading of what was before not much of a problem.

I think Davy was doing something with cell regression work what ever came of it?

This random comb here was taken from one of my empty supers which are on the larger foundation, yet they are just under five millimeters inyernal, we also measured a freinds Warre top bar comb and it is even smaller at 4.50mm and the Warre has faired better than the same size colonies on a national in the same apiary.

Picture shows a small bore gauge in action.

Something is happening which we will hear the answer for pretty soon if enough independant surveys are done.

To reiterate an earlier mention, Thorn's are advertising in this years, cat, that the smaller foundation MAY help in the control of Varroa or is this old news.

 

[The Apprentices]

Ahhhh, I see. I'm just trying to understand the statement "The time it takes for a clean colony to be exposed to the Varroa mite is as little as three day according to the time searved beeks I have spoken to." and wondered how this comes about?

Chris

That out da way, what does ya tink.

 

[Chris Luck]

I think that sometimes people think too much and I'm not sure what the question really is, but it's possible that there is a little confusion here as it is the mite as I understand it that can only live for three days without a bee and again I understand it that all colonies, (or almost all), in Europe have varroa mites present to some degree or another. Even a swarm will carry some mites with it.

Cell regression requires many years and it may well be that not all species will reduce their cell size anyway, in fact I have found that bees left to draw their own comb appear to make larger drone cells, I suppose I should be a little more scientific and measure some. Personally I don't find that Warré hives with loose comb do any better than my Dadants with frames.

Chris

 

[Moggs]

Isle of Man is varroa-free

 

[oliver90owner]

Once there is varroa in a colony, how would you get it free of varroa? Just does not happen. There is no varroacide which claims 100% efficacy (apart from our own HP's production line for debugging bees!).

The only course of action is to maintain them below the 'damage' theshold. Lower is better but not to get paranoid about it. I have not kept bees long enough to ever have had a varroa-free colony, even for one day!

RAB

 

[The Apprentices]

Hmmm

So not that much known about Varroa then.

One or two seasoned beeks have told me there is indeed a three days from clean to seeing the little blighters, so that 3 day window is a start.

I cannot believe for one second that everyone is going to lay down and simply accept that that's how its gotta be, we send men to the moon and manage to keep someone with HIV alive and a simple flee has the whole of science stumped.

Has anyone actually done anything with the cell regression scenario or heard of anyone doing it today, according to a few it takes around four months to perform properly and every time it has been mentioned it has met the same kind of abiguity as if its a dirty word.

What is altered in the past sometimes takes three times longer to reverse, not that I'm saying it must be done mind you.

Carry on regardless is what I'm getting here, so its Varroa 2.0 and be done then.

I'll be in my bunk doing some more thinking

 

[oliver90owner]

So not that much known about Varroa then.

I would suggest there is an awful lot known about varroa. Around two million hits on 'Goggle'would indicate a little interest.. It is after all, now a world-wide problem.

One or two seasoned beeks have told me

So was this one, or two?

Please ask him/her/them which varroacide they use to get their colonies totally clear of mites. In my experience, it doesn't happen and I have never seen an advert to claim it either. Not even world-wide.

If it did, we could at least start the season with zero mites and the 'varroa problem' would no longer be a 'real' problem.

RAB

 

[The Apprentices]

So not that much known about Varroa then.

I would suggest there is an awful lot known about varroa. Around two million hits on 'Goggle'would indicate a little interest.. It is after all, now a world-wide problem.

One or two seasoned beeks have told me

So was this one, or two?

Please ask him/her/them which varroacide they use to get their colonies totally clear of mites. In my experience, it doesn't happen and I have never seen an advert to claim it either. Not even world-wide.

If it did, we could at least start the season with zero mites and the 'varroa problem' would no longer be a 'real' problem.

RAB

Not wishing to argue any further nor make any of the claims of clarity or no, lets try to stay on track and rack a few more Varroa by focusing upon sweeping and filtering things using such devices.

My time is free to everyone as is any device the culminates from such projects, its all in my signature and in my Warre thread at the moment.

 

[oliver90owner]

Varroa on honey bees has been around for probably the best part of 60 years

I think if the colonies could be kept/got varroa free, the would solution to the problem would have been much closer than it is. Just doesn't happen, OK? Bee brushes, or whatever, aside.

Here is a question: How effective are your bee brushes - like how many varroa are being collected in the oil bath? Much more useful than this thread, but not a lot of good if it don't work.

 

[newportbuzz]

i feel sure you could make a varroa free colony as i have been tempeted to do it as i think i know where there is a varroa free island since there is no bees there.
i was thinking the best way to do it would be to start VERY small with say one apidea box which you search through.
The bees could be searched before they develop their stings making the work much easier i believe that co2 knocks the bees out with very little side affects if done properly, so you could with reasanable cost search over 300 ml of bees.
Much more is done daily for wing morph tests(90-100 bees per batch i believe)

the problem as i see it is that we dont need varroa free bees we need varroa resistant bees

 

[Chris Luck]

the problem as i see it is that we dont need varroa free bees we need varroa resistant bees

Coooooo, hallelujah....

....and that's exactly what we already have to a greater or lesser extent if you mean honey bees that can live with the mighty mite.

As far as cell regression goes, it didn't help the majority of "feral" colonies in France during the first 10 years of varroa, (82 to 92), although they did recover. These bees would have already have had cells that suited them, and just as an aside the small, dark "feral" bees when captured as a swarm frequently abscond from a standard type hive and prefer something smaller without foundation. I have colonies that are several years old and still only occupy two thirds of the brood box and will only use the corresponding two thirds of supers above - bizarre eh?

Chris

 

[The Apprentices]

great information

Coooooo, hallelujah....

....and that's exactly what we already have to a greater or lesser extent if you mean honey bees that can live with the mighty mite.

As far as cell regression goes, it didn't help the majority of "feral" colonies in France during the first 10 years of varroa, (82 to 92), although they did recover. These bees would have already have had cells that suited them, and just as an aside the small, dark "feral" bees when captured as a swarm frequently abscond from a standard type hive and prefer something smaller without foundation. I have colonies that are several years old and still only occupy two thirds of the brood box and will only use the corresponding two thirds of supers above - bizarre eh?

Chris

Cheers Chris that's more like it, so it does have something to do with the smaller size hotel for say Carnica who do like to abscond more frequently from those who have tried them in larger systems, an old customer and bee keeper in Slovina confirms the same.

He use Warre sized/type hives with thicker timber overall and has good results each year.

Now what of cell regression and Varroa in housed colonies?