Timber for hives

[Loxley]

Hi,

Having just read the thread on cedar hives and the relative merits I was wondering what other timbers people have experience of making Hives from.

I am a carpenter by trade and keen to make my own. Obviously they are predominantly made from Western red cedar or pine but I'm sure there are other timbers that could be used.

Anyone done any experimenting with this?

Thanks,

Rob

 

[madasafish]

I have made nucs from pallet wood (free).
Works very well.
And it's free.

Has to be protected but as I use overlapping roofs, that is not really an issue. Butt joints, screws and PU glue.

 

[Loxley]

Yes I saw a Bibba webinar where Karl Colyer talked about doing that. Currently all my pallets get used as pallets but it's a good source of free wood.

I guess protecting the timber is a big part of the equation whatever timber you use.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I guess protecting the timber is a big part of the equation whatever timber you use.

No necessary when using cedar.

 

[user 819]

Pallets good for my open fire, good job I can get them for free when I need them.

 

[Loxley]

No necessary when using cedar.

Yes I understand that durability is a major advantage of the cedar. Other timbers such as oak and sweet chestnut are also considered durable and are readily available, anyone used them?

Any timber will eventually degrade when exposed to the elements and that lifespan can normally be extended through treating the timber in some way. Obviously lots of timber treatments are unsuitable for bees and so not treating at all is a safe bet.

Are any timbers preferred or actively disliked by the bees?

 

[ericbeaumont]

protecting the timber is a big part of the equation whatever timber you use

Cedar needs no protection for it's entire life.

Pine and so on must be treated: in Australia and the US they dip boxes in hot liquid paraffin; painting is pointless as it prevents the wood breathing and the paint blisters. Some use ply - I have a few boxes from somewhere that are still going - but it's heavy, absorbs moisture if not sealed and usually has a short life.

The lighter the wood the better, and cedar is not only the lightest but has the best thermal efficiency of timber, and thermal efficiency is what bees would choose and what allows the colony to work most effectively.

Check out thermodynamist Derek Mitchell's work: here are samples: According to universally accepted standards, soft pine offers an R-value of about 1.12 per inch. [4] Therefore, the ¾ inch pine boxes we typically use provide an R-value of about 0.84. Conversely, a colony surrounded by 5 inches of wood in a natural softwood tree benefits from an R-value of about 5.6 or about six times the insulation quality of a typical bee box and that’s just the outside walls.

Here's another: Depending on relative water content of the enclosure material, the difference in heat transfer may be as large as a factor of 4 to 7 times for wooden hives and 1.5 to 5 times for full-size expanded polystyrene hives (Fig. 2, Table 2) compared to tree enclosures.

As you're unlikely to want to saw up 150mm insulation boards to make your hives, your best bet is a Welsh sawmill cutting up Welsh cedar.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Are any timbers preferred or actively disliked by the bees?

As long as it's secure, dry, roughly 40cu. litres and mimics a nest, bees couldn't care less what you put them in.

 

[Colin reilly]

I received some seasoned Douglas Fir from a friend recently and have made a few hives out of it, really nice to work with, great colour, but they are quite heavy. Timber treatment will be required

 

[BugsInABox]

Cedar needs no protection for it's entire life.

Being pedantic isnt that true of everything - just that the life will vary?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Being pedantic isnt that true of everything - just that the life will vary?

Hot topic on Oprah last week...

 

[HughMann]

Maybe worth research wax dipping. But if you go that route, be VERY aware of the safety considerations while you are doing it.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Hot topic on Oprah last week...

And on googlebox

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hot topic on Oprah last week...

What's Oprah?

 

[Brian Bush]

I have used WRC, exterior ply and pallets for building hives.
Wrc is by far the best.
Pallets painted with Salodin type wood preservative last very well.
Exterior ply similarly treated last between 8 and 10 years.
WRC is also the lightest and 14x12 brood boxes made of ply can be heavy.
A colleague has some supers given him by another carpenter/cabinet maker made from teak type hardwood. They are beautifully made with tight dovetails and joints. They will last for ever but Sean is in his eighties and occasionally has to phone me to carry them to his vehicle.

 

[Frizzaldo]

I looked into using larch but internet searches came back saying it makes for a very heavy hive.

As you probably know oak and sweet chestnut are quite expensive here vs the US (and relative to cedar given its suitability) so might be worth checking US forums for answers on those if you have a supply

Supers generally go on in the summer so should face less wet weather so do open up the options of using other woods for them

 

[philipm]

When I first started I made hives from any wood that I had pallets,plywood and other bits and pieces even have a hive stand made from an old table base fancy legs as well.The biggest problem is the weight ,cedar is a lot lighter also it doesn't need treating.I find the old hives that I have made of pine tend to absorb a lot of moisture during the winter months. To keep the costs down its worth giving anything a try,I even made some bait hives out of cardboard boxes last year just as an experement it surprised me they lasted all the way through the year.

 

[Murox]

I looked into using larch but internet searches came back saying it makes for a very heavy hive.

As you probably know oak and sweet chestnut are quite expensive here vs the US (and relative to cedar given its suitability) so might be worth checking US forums for answers on those if you have a supply

Supers generally go on in the summer so should face less wet weather so do open up the options of using other woods for them

The density of the wood and the thickness you choose matters. If you are building a "normal" hive cedar is THE wood to use for durability, lightness in use etc. I build my long hives from Larch, works really well, of course moving a long hive involves two people.

 

[user 20297]

What's Oprah?

 

[user 819]

Teak type very nice but quite heavy, my guess is it is Afromosia. I remember we used it a lot as teak was very expensive and scarce.