The Ben Harden Method

[bombus]

Have any of you any experience of this method of Queen rearing? if so i would love to hear your comments.

bombus

 

[Poly Hive]

I havre looked at this method more than once and havre just read through it again to refresh my memory.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/benhardenmethod.html

I have always the same reservation. which is this.

In a normal starter box of bees there is nothing there but bees and the material they are offered to turn into queens. They have NO choice.

Harden has this frame of open brood involved and I strongly suspect that given the choice between their own brood and ALIEN grubs in cell cups they are going to vote for their ain kin.

That to me on a theoreticall level is the way it would logically go, however I am willing to give it a try this year and we will see what ocurs. I can always shake some bees and graft into them if all else fails.

By the way a wee tip here, if grafting in the car take a tray with you for the frame to sit on, as else as sure as eggs it will be dripping nectar...

I have posted a question on another list where Mr Harden lurks so we will see if he responds.

PH

 

[Poly Hive]

From the Irish list.

PJ Us wrote:
> I am considering trialling this method this year while my stock levels are
> low.
>
> I am curious to know if anyone has used it and to what degree of success.
>
> I have a serious doubt that the bees will accept alien grubs in cups when
> there is a frame of their own brood present.
>
> Any thoughts anyone?
>
Hi Pete

It obviously works for Ben and others but I wasted 2 or 3 seasons trying
to get my bees to accept grafts using this method. To this day I don't
know what I was doing wrong but once I switched to using queenless
starter colonies my problems melted away.

 

[bombus]

Thanks for your time and effort poly hive, that last paragraph has dampened my spirits i think. It seems to be an easy method to read about, but appears harder in practice.

bombus

 

[Poly Hive]

Bombus? You have 14 hives it seems; so ample material to make a starter box.

All that will be different is making that up. And if you put some frames of open brood over the excluder making VERY sure that HM is dowm below it then the next day armed with a plant sprayer you lift the frames, spray them lightly and shake into a nuc box. You need to move a bit fast and harden up to the stings to get the bees but 6 or 8 frames should give you a good harvest.

Feed them over night and have a pollen comb in the box too. Arrange the five frames thus...

stores, pollen, space, stores, frame feeder. Insert grafts into space and the next day you will see the accepted cells both have some fresh wax on them and also of couse bees hanging on them. The non accepted will have neither.

It is really very easy to do.

I asked Bernard years ago to teach me to graft and he Barked back, "No"

And so it is you have to teach yourself. Wax cups are the easiest to graft into as they being soft allow the tool to be pushed into the material thus enabling the larvae to be left there that much more easily than plastic.

If I can help in any way I will.

PH

 

[Poly Hive]

From Ben Harden.

Posted by: "Ben Harden"
Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:40 pm
It was Tom Lehrer who recommended that mere mortals should resort to
plagiarism as the road to success or fame.

If you have access to a library and can get, Dave Wilkinson and Mike Brown,
2002, Rearing Queen Honey Bees in a Queenright Colony, American Bee Journal
142, 270-274. you will have a much more comprehensive account of the process
than my few words in a Nutshell.

At the Central Science Laboratory the colonies used are double brood
chamber Smiths rather than the single box my colonies inhabit; none the less
the process and principles are the same.

Ben

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Ben Harden Q rearing method?
Posted by: "Peter Edwards"
Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:03 am
Ben:
> If you have access to a library and can get, Dave Wilkinson and Mike
> Brown,
> 2002, Rearing Queen Honey Bees in a Queenright Colony, American Bee
> Journal
> 142, 270-274.

Available here:

http://beebase.csl.gov.uk/pdfs/RearingQueenHoneybees.pdf

Peter

Regards

PH

 

[bombus]

Thanks for that PH, you are a star!

 

[BKF Admin]

Thats a great link PH, many thanks

 

[Poly Hive]

I thank you Admin and Bombus.

If, and please note the if as I am now under lack of resources pressure for my plans, I have the scope I will trial this method but I say again, and I worry about this NBU not with standing, the frame of "their own brood" seems to me to be a magnet for cell starting far more than the grafts.

PH

 

[Brian Bush]

Thanks all, Good information. The link is excellent as well. Cheers polyhive

 

[gavin]

....and I worry about this NBU not with standing, the frame of "their own brood" seems to me to be a magnet for cell starting far more than the grafts.

PH

Presumably it is also a magnet for nurse bees, which is why it will be there alongside the grafts, to get the right bees into the area. Easy to check later if they have started cells on that frame too.

G.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes but my point Gavin is that brood on a frame is (in my experience) far more attractive to the nurse bees than the adjacent grafts. Hence my point.

As I say I will trial it and see what happens.

PH

 

[bombus]

Yesterday I grafted into wax cups of my own making, 13 out of the 16 have been accepted,eureka. Am I happy? bet your sweet bippy I am.

This is the Ben Harden method I'm speaking of by the way.

Very happy bombus.

 

[Poly Hive]

Congrats and well done.

PH

 

[DulwichGnome]

Hi all, I am gearing my self up to start breeding some Queens next year and this method looks interesting. Can anyone see a problem if it was two 5 frame nuc boxes doubled up? or would they feel crowded, swam and I'd loss a good queen?

Mike.

 

[Poly Hive]

I rather doubt they would be strong enough all in all.

PH

 

[DulwichGnome]

Thanks Poly Hive, just a thought, I'll file it under 'B'.

 

[jezd]

Posted by: "Ben Harden"
Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:40 pm
It was Tom Lehrer who recommended that mere mortals should resort to
plagiarism as the road to success or fame.

If you have access to a library and can get, Dave Wilkinson and Mike Brown,
2002, Rearing Queen Honey Bees in a Queenright Colony, American Bee Journal
142, 270-274. you will have a much more comprehensive account of the process
than my few words in a Nutshell.

At the Central Science Laboratory the colonies used are double brood
chamber Smiths rather than the single box my colonies inhabit; none the less
the process and principles are the same.

Ben

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Ben Harden Q rearing method?
Posted by: "Peter Edwards"
Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:03 am
Ben:
> If you have access to a library and can get, Dave Wilkinson and Mike
> Brown,
> 2002, Rearing Queen Honey Bees in a Queenright Colony, American Bee
> Journal
> 142, 270-274.

Available here:

http://beebase.csl.gov.uk/pdfs/RearingQueenHoneybees.pdf

Peter

Regards

PH

Hi PH, do you have this file, or anyone as the link is broken.

ta

Jez


EDIT Ignore, found it with a search, cheerz

 

[RoofTops]

This link might work better, look halfway down the page, 3rd entry in 2002 but the link in the entry takes you to the American Bee Journal and I couldn't find the article quickly - you may need to register.

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=172

 

[jezd]

thanx