Telegraph CCD Article

[jenkinsbrynmair]

which is totally different especially in the context of this thread as nothing is taken away from the colony - it still has it's full complement of young, old, nurse,forager bees so that's another hole in the supposition that pagden could trigger CCD

 

[Brian Bush]

You are wrong Finman

I wonder what is the whole idea in this discussion.

Colony has in nature 2 swarm. After swarming colony has only young bees, but after couple of weeks it has different kind of bees.

Swarming does not make the colony sick like we talk about CCD.

In honey production colony needs home bees and foragers.
With AS you need to join swarm and brood hive, if you are going to get normal honey yield.

But if you are not trying to get normal or good yield, it is same what you do.

Latest research indicates that a large proportion of the younger house bees are included in a swarm. It is not the older foragers that predominate

 

[itma]

Colony has in nature 2 swarm. After swarming colony has only young bees, ...

Errr, no, its much more subtle than that.
The swarm has an age distribution that is disproportionately high in young foragers and 'transitional' (house=>forager) bees.

A real swarm and an 'artificial swarm' do have different population age distributions.
This is NOT anything specific to 'Pagden'.

--- incidentally there is a school of historical thought that says that Pagden's name ought only to be associated with the refinement of movement of the 'brood' colony from side to side of the original location (bleeding off new foragers from the brood/QC colony, deterring them from casting after raising plural QCs.




In my eyes, there are important differences between the AS and the Telegraph report of the seriousness of colony stress due to forager loss. The new Q (or initially Q- and QCs) will cause its own change in colony dynamics, quite apart from other beekeeper interventions.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Latest research indicates that a large proportion of the younger house bees are included in a swarm

And it's not even really later - this was discoverd decades ago, but never seemed to make it into the popular domain.

 

[Finman]

Errr, no, its much more subtle than that.
The swarm has an age distribution that is disproportionately high in young foragers and 'transitional' (house=>forager) bees.

A real swarm and an 'artificial swarm' do have different population age distributions.
T



.

When it is swarming time, masses of brood are emerging. Of course hive has more young bees. 3 weeks later all those young bees are foragers and the whole new brood generation has emerged: 10 frames or 20 frames!

In early swarm wintered bees have died, and hive has new bees

Then 2 months later the structure of colony is very different.

In secpnd swarm again structure of bee age is different, because new bees have emerged during one week.

In AS all bees over 3 dsys old have moved to AS. Those bees which located the old hive.


Guys out there. Do not make your science with thinking.

 

[Finman]

.
It is very common, that when hive has turned very silent. Quess what? It is a sign that swarms are gone. You need not much experience when you see it.

Then another old truth is that swarm is a good forager. Reason is that it has plenty of foragers and there are not larvae which eate the yield.

It totally depends, when the swarm leaves, in May, June or July. Is it primary swarm or late swarm.

Then it depends too, howbig was the start of colony in spring, was it 10 frames or 3 frames. When it is rippen to swarm.

And many more.

How ever, the stucture of swarm reflects the history of brooding.

The swarn can be 500 g or 5000 g

.

 

[Finman]

.
Lets think about history of brooding.

1 generation of brood 4 frames
2. Gen 10 frames
3. Gen 15 frames

A hive can swarm when it has only one box and 4 frames have emerged. It may have 4-6 boxes and bee structure is very different.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Like the centurion with a faulty pilum - lost the point somewhere along the way.

 

[user 6228]

I do not understand

iWhen a colony is in trouble, it cannot waste anything...every joule of energy saved, counts towards survival