Telegraph CCD Article

[La Folie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...-stressed-young-workers-grow-up-too-fast.html

Interesting article, but still mentions CCD in Britain. I understood that we had not had any cases here?

 

[user 6228]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...-stressed-young-workers-grow-up-too-fast.html

Interesting article, but still mentions CCD in Britain. I understood that we had not had any cases here?

All of the surveys do not adequately note the ventilation and insulation methods employed.
one survey of german apiaries noted no difference between polystyrene and wood but then failed to note the ventilation methods used.
The others do not didtinguish between poly and wood, mqatchsticks or none

 

[itma]

I'm afraid it is only a subtle extension beyond stating the bleedin' obvious ...

... when older workers are killed off by disease, lack of food or other factors they have to start younger.
The phenomenon is a natural adaptation helping colonies survive, but researchers believe when exceptional numbers of older bees die, the surge in immature bees being pressed into service could instead be a key factor behind them collapsing.
Scientists who attached radio tracking devices to thousands of bees found that early-starters completed fewer foraging flights and were more likely to die on their first sortie.

"When exceptional numbers of older bees die" will obviously stress the colony.

What the researchers have noted is that young bees, promoted early to foraging, don't make very successful foragers - THEY die young, compounding the problem of shortage of foragers.

Not all that big a finding really.

The more important question would be why would "exceptional numbers of older bees die" in the first place.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The more important question would be why would "exceptional numbers of older bees die" in the first place.

A believe it to be a combination of several things, with three main reasons at the top of the list.

 

[Finman]

.
A profound question: Why CCD is only in USA?

A new question: Why dead rate of hives is almost as big in summer as in winter?

Hives are transported from monocultures to monocultures several times a year.
Cranberry, blueberry, strawberry, melon, alfa alfa.... They are not actually bees' food plants.

However, the hive number in USA is not declining. Pollination business goes well.

In Alaska colonies are actively killed in late summer, because there is no "better economic alternative to package bees".

Such is bee life. There is no CCD in Canada.

 

[Finman]

.

In Alaska colonies are actively killed in late summer, because there is no "better economic alternative to package bees".
.

Why bees do not survive in Alaska?

Because
- nursing habits are same as Florida's tropical climate
- queens are imported from Hawai, Florida and California
- USA does not sell "queens adopted to northern latitudes"
- US beeks do not understand meaning of insulation. Best advicors are from California.

 

[domino]

.
A profound question: Why CCD is only in USA?

One of the issues is that CCD is now a catch all term for all colony deaths rather than the very specific CCD symptoms.

There is a company I know that keep bees on their roof. As far as I can tell talking to them they never check for diseases and every year they lose half their bees; this year they lost 75%.

They put this down to CCD. I have little doubt it's just poor husbandry.

 

[Finman]

One of the issues is that CCD is now a catch all term for all colony deaths rather than the very specific CCD symptoms.
.

That is wrong quess.
Newspaper men like to make shocking news. It is Collective Fun Making, CFM.

.

 

[Finman]

Tupla juttu


.

 

[alanf]

Unfortunate that journalists and even those promoting the research feel the need to push CCD. I guess that's where the money and clicks are. But read the abstract of the paper itself and it's actually more interesting.

http://m.pnas.org/content/early/2015/02/04/1422089112

The basic finding is that accelerating young bees to becoming foragers results in substandard foragers. The research is not about how the adults disappear, that's a condition of the experiment. The research is about what happens next. A colony unbalanced in age is in danger and could be close to a spiralling decline.

Yet what is the standard taught swarm prevention? A Pagden type artificial swarm where all the adult foragers are removed. Just like the experimental condition. Where accelerating young bees to foragers will result in inefficient foraging and shorter lives. One to think about in spring when the queen cells appear. Maybe before that if you're planning your beginners course.

 

[Finman]

.
US bees have disappeared 9 years. Every year somebody invents, why that happens. Last year bees lost their memory for necotioids.

 

[Fatbee]

It's an interesting point about the Pagden because I believe I've read that in a natural swarm not all foragers leave - bees take a balance of foragers and younger bees for wax building. Which is where the Pagden method has a weakness. The key I imagine is to only keep strong colonies who can cope with the more inefficient newly promoted foragers. From what I believe in some of the problem US areas strength is not prioritised over numbers to mass pollinate.

 

[BeeJayBee]

... A colony unbalanced in age is in danger and could be close to a spiralling decline.

Yet what is the standard taught swarm prevention? A Pagden type artificial swarm where all the adult foragers are removed. Just like the experimental condition. Where accelerating young bees to foragers will result in inefficient foraging and shorter lives. One to think about in spring when the queen cells appear. Maybe before that if you're planning your beginners course.

I knew there was a valid reason not to like the Pagden artificial swarm!

 

[user 6228]

Unfortunate that journalists and even those promoting the research feel the need to push CCD. I guess that's where the money and clicks are. But read the abstract of the paper itself and it's actually more interesting.

http://m.pnas.org/content/early/2015/02/04/1422089112

The basic finding is that accelerating young bees to becoming foragers results in substandard foragers. The research is not about how the adults disappear, that's a condition of the experiment. The research is about what happens next. A colony unbalanced in age is in danger and could be close to a spiralling decline.

Yet what is the standard taught swarm prevention? A Pagden type artificial swarm where all the adult foragers are removed. Just like the experimental condition. Where accelerating young bees to foragers will result in inefficient foraging and shorter lives. One to think about in spring when the queen cells appear. Maybe before that if you're planning your beginners course.

Thanks you have given me another point to include in my talk on saturday.
i.e. an unbalanced colony hasnt the resources to waste workers on making good energy losses

 

[Finman]

I wonder what is the whole idea in this discussion.

Colony has in nature 2 swarm. After swarming colony has only young bees, but after couple of weeks it has different kind of bees.

Swarming does not make the colony sick like we talk about CCD.

In honey production colony needs home bees and foragers.
With AS you need to join swarm and brood hive, if you are going to get normal honey yield.

But if you are not trying to get normal or good yield, it is same what you do.

 

[Finman]

i.e. an unbalanced colony hasnt the resources to waste workers on making good energy losses

I do not understand

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But.......... I doubt American commercial beekeepers use the Pagden method (if any A/S method at all apart from maybe walk away splits)
But who has SCCD we, the British (who tend to use Pagden methods) or the US ?
Are we just trying to make science fit here?
Or trying to justify not using the Pagden method because it's hard work and we're lazy?

 

[domino]

It's an interesting point about the Pagden because I believe I've read that in a natural swarm not all foragers leave - bees take a balance of foragers and younger bees for wax building. Which is where the Pagden method has a weakness. The key I imagine is to only keep strong colonies who can cope with the more inefficient newly promoted foragers. From what I believe in some of the problem US areas strength is not prioritised over numbers to mass pollinate.

But it isn't as binary as young bee/forager bee is it?

I would imagine that there are a range of maturity in the hive population rather than as reported here that all the foragers where bumped off and the younger bees were instantly promoted.

I'd be really interested to understand how the researchers separated the bees.

I've never had issues with ASs method.

 

[Finman]

.
A classical CCD: Handfull of bees, queen, quite much brood and other bees are away. Not even robbing.

It is same, are the bees young or old, if they are dead.

 

[Finman]

But.......... I doubt American commercial beekeepers use the Pagden ?

They use it but the name is Demaree.

.