Syrup

[Nige.Coll]

At this time of the year, they need a more concentrated solution so they can pack it away as winter stores. If you feed them 1:1 solution, they'll just convert it to more brood. You also need to give as much as they can take at a time

What stops them turning 2:1 into brood ?

August imo is not the time of year to fill the brood box with stores so they only have 2 or 3 frames to lay in when raising winter bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

August imo is not the time of year to fill the brood box with stores so they only have 2 or 3 frames to lay in when raising winter bees.

Some people on here just seem to want winter to be here tomorrow, get all their varroa control and feeding done now and pack them away and forget about them until Christmas time

 

[B+.]

What stops them turning 2:1 into brood ?

August imo is not the time of year to fill the brood box with stores so they only have 2 or 3 frames to lay in when raising winter bees.

When you simulate a heavy flow, they store it away and go to get more. However, when you drip-feed them with a more dilute syrup they tend to use it for their own needs rather than storing it away. The more dilute 1:1 feeding is often used as a stimulative feed in the spring.
This may be true is you have heather or balsam for the bees to forage on, but, in my area they have very little at the moment. I'm surrounded by farms which are harvesting night and day. If I didn't feed them enough to keep them going, they'd be robbing the weaker colonies. Incidentally, I use Langstroths which have a lot more comb area than Nationals so the queen still has lots of space to lay
I've kept bees in this area for 27 years so I know what the nectar flows are like. Just as you had weather problems and no flow a month ago...you have to do what is necessary in your area.

 

[itma]

...
The thing that confuses beginners is this obsession with measuring everything to the nth degree - it matter not a jot whether it's a bit thinner, or a bit thicker the bees won't turn their noses up at it if they need it.
Beekeeping isn't an exact science - the bees make sure of that!!

Thing is that metric 2:1 (66%) is bang on the limit of solubility, so if you don't measure carefully, any error making it too strong is going to lead to complaints of "it won't dissolve' or "its started to crystallise".
Backing off to metric 60:40 (3:2) (or 2 pounds to a pint) means that one doesn't have to be so precise.

Basic rule - for immediate consumption (thus promoting wax-dawing for example) a 50% sugar solution is pretty much ideal for the bees to metabolise.
However, for storing, a stronger syrup makes the job easier for the bees, so they can do more, faster, with less bee-power being needed.

Give the bees strong syrup when they want to make wax, and they will still draw wax - the strong syrup just has to be diluted for consumption, which means nectar or water foraging, and a little less bee-power available for wax-making.

Trying to help the bees to do what they need to do is a worthy aim.
And to help them most for wax-making, 'thin' (about 50%) syrup is best. Whereas to help them lay down stores, stronger syrup (like 60%) is more helpful.



I dislike contact feeders - particularly for beginners.
Excessively strong (so crystallising) syrup plus a contact feeder is a recipe for "the bees have no stores but aren't taking the syrup". If you haven't heard it, you will!

 

[Greggorio]

I know some beginners will be tearing their hair out trying to dissolve 2kg of granulated cane sugar into 1 litre of water to make syrup which they can feed to their bees at the moment....so here's how I do it

pour:
2 litres of water
4kg sugar

into a 6 liter pressure cooker and stir. Apply a little heat on the hob and bring it up to pressure (mine operates at 7lb pressure) . By this time, the pressure will have helped dissolve the sugar and it will be a completely smooth syrup. No granulated sugar left that didn't go into suspension!

I hope this helps someone out there.

will this not essentially boil the mixture at an even higher temperature than normal? I thought you didn't want to boil it. Obviously you have never had a problem so it's ok to do but just thought I'd ask

 

[B+.]

will this not essentially boil the mixture at an even higher temperature than normal? I thought you didn't want to boil it. Obviously you have never had a problem so it's ok to do but just thought I'd ask

No. It only takes a few minutes for the sugar to dissolve. You don't have to "cook" it.
There has been a lot of discussion since that post but 2:1 ratio (or even higher) is good for preparing a colony for winter

 

[Nige.Coll]

To try and make it as simple as possible for a beginner. If you inspect weekly and they have 2 full brood frames of stores then they have a weeks worth of food.( single brood box of bees )
If they don't then feed them.
If you can't inspect due to weather then a 4pt feeder full isn't going to do any harm until you can have a look within reasonable time ofc.
As far as the syrup 1:1, 2:1, 1.5:1 it isn't important now.

Easiest way to make a small amount is a 5 ltr can. Put the sugar in and add boiling water and shake it. If doing it this way try and stick to 1.25 Ltrs min. of boiling water to 2kg of sugar it dissolves easier.

Never realised something so easy could get so complicated.

Isn't the point of any feeding to give them what they need ? Obviously larger amounts will result in stores regardless of recipe.


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Finman]

.
If some one here has experience in beekeeping, he has surely noticed, that 66% is practical upper limit to feed sugar.

In higher consentration sugar attach to the hairs of bees and dry up there.
Bees have difficulties suck it. With 66% content bees start to carry drinking water from outside.

You cannot make science from this. What you need is practice. Try so long that it works, if good given simple advice is not your case.

 

[For want of a better word]

Boil the water before adding the sugar, this seems to drive off the chemicals added by the water companies to make it potable.

I now only use rainwater collected in clean plastic buckets

Yeghes da

 

[Pete D]

Here's an easy option, take £11 (3 jars of honey profit) and buy a 12.5kg drum of Ambrosia per hive (currently £10.80) from our association bulk buying) and feed it later in the season if they need it. It wont ferment, can be taken and stored very easily, keeps for ages and saves mess and time.

Even with low yields of 30-40 lb per hive, £11 for feed per year should be affordable even though its more expensive than £4 worth of sugar, heating water, your time, cleaning up etc etc

 

[B+.]

It wont ferment, can be taken and stored very easily, keeps for ages and saves mess and time.

Sorry Pete but thats what I did last year. It did ferment.

 

[Pete D]

Sorry Pete but thats what I did last year. It did ferment.

It was on the hive too long if it fermented. If it has not gone in a week they don't need it.

 

[Pete D]

As this is the beginners section I was offering an easy alternative for beginners with 1 or 2 hives.
I have 4 x 25kg bags of sugar in the garage from Bookers which cost about £40 in total when they had an offer on a few months back. Not looking forward to getting out the burco in a few weeks and making up syrup if its required.
A lot of Mustard has just gone in around here so with the Ivy in 2-3 weeks then Mustard it might not be needed.

 

[B+.]

It was on the hive too long if it fermented. If it has not gone in a week they don't need it.

From what I've been told, Ambrosia is supposed to keep a couple of years so long as it isn't exposed to extremes of heat and cold. It was in a high density poly (Paradise Honey) hive top feeder so it was well insulated. I would be prepared to accept that it could have been an odd barrel that fermented but it is not true to say that it doesn't ferment (it hadn't been on the hive a long time either...perhaps a little over a week....I ended up by tipping it out)

 

[Finman]

.
When I get my hives ready, I come to England and feed your all hives.

To Wales I do not touch even with stick.

 

[Pete D]

OK, maybe it was duff or too much water content, dunno never heard of it before but that's beekeeping, learn something new every day.
This is from their brochure
For supplemental winter feeding in particular, ambrosia Beefood
Syrup is economical and has the following advantages:
– Liquid, ready-to-use food is the closest thing to natural bee food
– Ideal for early and late supplemental winter feeding
– Resistant to microbiological spoilage, long storage stability
– Hygienic, timesaving and easy handling
– Readily taken up by bees
– No danger of robbery
– Less inversion work and energy expenditure
Send it back and complain.

At least if you use sugar syrup like me you know it will ferment if they don't take it down within a week.

 

[Finman]

I am cleanin honey off and reducing hives . I move them next morning to cottage.

In Finnish
.
Alkaa olla valmista. Klo 20 ja lämpötila 24C. Välilevy ei tykkää minusta eikä mehiläisistä.

Aamulla haen pesät pois. Tähän tulee ojitustyömaa.

Sikiöitä on talvehtimaan kahdelle osastolle.

.

 

[Thymallus]

To Wales I do not touch even with stick.

You will be very pleased to know that an old English King called Offa build a **** across the Welsh borders to keep them out of the the rest of the country. Bit Like Hadrian's wall, but in reverse.

 

[Thymallus]

At least if you use sugar syrup like me you know it will ferment if they don't take it down within a week.

Not if you add some thymol to it.

 

[B+.]

Send it back and complain.

At least if you use sugar syrup like me you know it will ferment if they don't take it down within a week.

Too late...the worms drank it