Swarm Control - clipping wings

[TheLondonBeeKeeper]

Hi,

I have a question about clipping wings.

I often hear beekeepers saying they do swarm inspections every 7 days.
Presumably because queens are capped on day 8 and this would be when the first swarm leaves with the old queen.

So far so good?

Ok so the next step is I often hear beekeepers, that clip their queens, saying this means they can check every 10 days (rather than 7).

I understand that the old queen will come out the hive fall to the floor (because she can’t fly) and probably die.

But why does this mean you get an extra 3 days between inspections?

 

[TooBee...]

The theory is that clipping your Queen delays her departure by a few days, I've heard some say that the clipped Queen won't try to leave until the Virgin starts piping.

One of my clipped Queens tried to swarm, she didn't die just mulled around for a while, put her in a new hive in the old spot, ie. an artificial swarm / split, job sorted.

However I have seen no research on the subject of clipping Queens, so I am uncertain as to what is correct, if anything. I clip. And will continue to do so, I've seen Queens fly off during an inspection (apparently she returned by the next inspection).

A word of warning, be patient when clipping, PRACTICE with your Clippers and Queen Catcher, practice on some Drones first. Remember some hives (bees) can get very testy when their Queen is removed, be prepared for this, try not to let it bother you, but don't rush things, the last thing you want is to damage your Queen, such as clip the end of one of her front feet, which I understand will cause Supersedure - I've read somewhere that clipping more than a 1/3 of a wing can cause the same - only clip one wing.

Goodluck

 

[For want of a better word]

No need to clip queens at all
Throne produce an iron disk that can be affixed to queen

orne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5123

A big magnet by the tunnell entrance will stop he leaving the hive

German company marketed such a few years back........

Some say let them fly!

 

[applejack33]

Clipping Wings

So is the Q permanently stuck to the magnet until discovered there then? Or have I missed something?

 

[Finman]

Clipping wing is very handy habit. It stops missing the swarm suddenly. If queenless swarm rises onto tree top, it returns in half a hour.

If a hive does not have open brood, it has tried to swarm.

The longer the inspect interval, the bigger change to loose the laying queen.

When you see swarm cells, do at once an artificial swarm into a foundation hive. To get honey join later the swarm parts.

 

[Stedic]

Reading the thread with interest as I have a possible site for this season which would be brilliant, but swarms would be quite unwelcome.

The magnet thing...I'm really not sure what I think of that. I don't think anyone who has ever seen me mark a queen would let me near one with glue!

 

[B+.]

No need to clip queens at all

Dave, I have to wonder if you think about what you're saying sometimes. This is just not true and I would have thought you would know that.
Queens have to be clipped after instrumental insemination.
They don't realise that they've been inseminated and can still attempt to fly. They have to be sealed in with a queen excluder to prevent this.

 

[mazzamazda]

Dave, I have to wonder if you think about what you're saying sometimes. This is just not true and I would have thought you would know that.
Queens have to be clipped after instrumental insemination.
They don't realise that they've been inseminated and can still attempt to fly. They have to be sealed in with a queen excluder to prevent this.

Thanks! I really do learn something everyday.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

why does this mean you get an extra 3 days between inspections?

Swarms usually (remember bees don't follow what's read in the books) emerge shortly after the queen cells are capped. What usually happens with a clipped queen is, she quickly crashes out and is lost, the swarm, now being bereft of their laying machine will return to the hive, business as usual until the first queen emerges, they will then go with this virgin, therefore you get a prime swarm led by an unmated queen.so you still need to go in and sort it out.
The extra three days is, if they haven't swarmed at all, then business as usual, A/S if required with old queen if there are QC's.
If there are QC's but the queen has gone, you can either just reduce to one and hope the swarming urge has gone or, conduct an A/S but without a queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The theory is that clipping your Queen delays her departure by a few days

no it isn't

 

[B+.]

no it isn't

JBM is right. The reason beekeepers sometimes clip a queens wings is not to delay swarming but to prevent them getting very far. The queen will often fall to the ground and the workers will cluster around her. If the beekeeper is vigilant, he will find the swarm and be able to rehome it.

Often this is insufficient, particularly if the colony is in an out-apiary which the beekeeper visits infrequently. The only justifiable reason to clip wings IMO is after II

 

[domino]

I clip queens and do a weekly inspection.

I clip queens because:

1. I don't want swarms flying all over where I keep my bees: farmer, neighbours etc.
2. If I miss swarm cells I don't lose the workers.

Number one is the main reason when I finally got around to keeping bees in my garden I clipped them all.

 

[TooBee...]

...
Queens have to be clipped after instrumental insemination.
They don't realise that they've been inseminated and can still attempt to fly. They have to be sealed in with a queen excluder to prevent this.

I thought the two puffs of CO2 did the trick, so an II Queen should be placed in a Nuc with a Queen Excluder fitted over the entrance before she is put to work or sold I suppose? I didn't know that. How long does the Queen Excluder stay, until she starts to lay?

 

[mbc]

I feel clipped queens know it and are more reluctant to go, nevertheless I've stopped clipping my queens now apart from the breeders.
Holistically speaking it's a bit mean and could ---- with the karma of the situation, plus there's something in the "rewilding" if you open mate native bees.

 

[TooBee...]

The theory is that clipping your Queen delays her departure by a few days

no it isn't

Theory
Definition = a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural...
Idioms = ideally; hypothetically...

Here knock yourself out,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

 

[Finman]

Theory
Definition = a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural...
Idioms = ideally; hypothetically...]

However, your theory is wrong. If it is a theory at all.
Wing is clipped that the swarm cannot escape with the queen. The swarm returns to home and try later again.

 

[TooBee...]

However, your theory is wrong. If it is a theory at all.
Wing is clipped that the swarm cannot escape with the queen. The swarm returns to home and try later again.

It's not my Theory, it's one I've been told by numerous people and is the standard teaching over here, hence the reason why I emphasized it was theory in italics, but it is the MAIN or often sole reason given over here for clipping your Queen. I am doubtful of it: But it is the reason you would be given in the Associations I visit. Wonder what BBKA's advice is, I wonder if that's where they got it from?

 

[Finman]

.
I have clipped queens 50 years. Nothing theory in it.

That was new to me a few years ago, that a clipped queen can walk back into the hive when the swarm returns from tree branch. Often I pick the queen infront of the hive when swarm starts.

I have an education of biological researcher, and I cannot find any theory in wing clipping. It is very ordinary job and well known. But not to those who do not do it.

 

[For want of a better word]

Dave, I have to wonder if you think about what you're saying sometimes. This is just not true and I would have thought you would know that.
Queens have to be clipped after instrumental insemination.
They don't realise that they've been inseminated and can still attempt to fly. They have to be sealed in with a queen excluder to prevent this.

Paul...
I clip my queens.. as I find them when there are drones about.
I think the Thornes device is a way to hold the queen... but do you remember the contraption to catch the queen if she tries to swarm.

Good pointer as to keeping the qx on!

Plan this season is to clip and badge up V queens on first CO2 to save time when inseminating.

MBC... I am not sure about the re wilding thing!

 

[masterBK]

I clip my queens and since using mesh floors often find the swarm plus clipped queen under one.