Swapping out brood frame?

[FullerBee]

After a successful inspection yesterday I’m thinking that at some point I need to swap out a brood frame.

The frame in question was originally supplied as part of the Nuc. It is an unwired frame and it has been built out to the point that the next frame was already a bit wider than ‘bee space’. Of course the bees have been busy and continued to build. What I noticed during inspection is that there now appear to be a ‘double facing’ section on one side - that is it’s so deep now out from the frame that the bees have comb that they can access both sides of on one side of the frame. The other side is normal.

I might not have explained that very well but it’s like have an extra side in the brood box. Anyway, it’s always full of brood but I think it needs to come out as it’s really getting a bit much.

So my question is what is the best technique to remove this frame so that I don’t kill off the growing brood?

I have one brood box with 10 full frames and 1 super being filled aboveQE.

Do I move brood frame to edge of brood box or perhaps I need to move it upward into a second brood box above the QE along with some dummy boards?

 

[REDWOOD]

Not too easy to move without causing the wrong bee space with other frames and messing them ones up as well, probably better waiting until there is no brood in the frame then remove it altogether

 

[FullerBee]

Not too easy to move without causing the wrong bee space with other frames and messing them ones up as well, probably better waiting until there is no brood in the frame then remove it altogether

Hi thanks,

Yes that’s part of what I was thinking - moving it around will just disrupt space elsewhere making a bigger ‘mess’. As this frame is pretty much in the centre I’m wondering if I’ll ever see it without brood! Looks like it’ll stay till later in the year and I’ll sort it as part of winter preparations.

 

[pargyle]

Perhaps look at your frame spacing - this often happens if you have too much space between the frames - I suspect that the person who sold you the nuc had a nuc box where there was more than space for five frames and rather than pushing the frames up close and adding a dummy they left a gap.

It doesn't really do any harm .. just have to be a bit careful taking the frame out as it can rub against the next frame and as you say you can't squash the frames up close. The bees don't mind they will work with whatever they have.

If you want to sort it I would move it to the edge of the brood nest and wait untl there is no brood left in it. You don't need to throw the frame away. Just slice the comb back to the frame and give it back to the bees - they will sort it out.

 

[FullerBee]

Perhaps look at your frame spacing - this often happens if you have too much space between the frames - I suspect that the person who sold you the nuc had a nuc box where there was more than space for five frames and rather than pushing the frames up close and adding a dummy they left a gap.

It doesn't really do any harm .. just have to be a bit careful taking the frame out as it can rub against the next frame and as you say you can't squash the frames up close. The bees don't mind they will work with whatever they have.

If you want to sort it I would move it to the edge of the brood nest and wait untl there is no brood left in it. You don't need to throw the frame away. Just slice the comb back to the frame and give it back to the bees - they will sort it out.

Thanks, Yea I think exactly what happened in the Nuc, all other frames I have in my hive are spaced so I don’t get this problem, just one side on this frame that’s quite awkward.

ill have a look next inspection, I think there’s enough space to get all other 9 frames in correctly with just bee space and then side this in the end. Hopefully then the volume of brood on it will decrease and I can remove it. To be honest it looks like it’s quite an old frame so ultimately going to replace it with new frame and then I can clean this one up properly and then it’ll be ready for reuse next year

 

[user 20297]

Thanks, Yea I think exactly what happened in the Nuc, all other frames I have in my hive are spaced so I don’t get this problem, just one side on this frame that’s quite awkward.

ill have a look next inspection, I think there’s enough space to get all other 9 frames in correctly with just bee space and then side this in the end. Hopefully then the volume of brood on it will decrease and I can remove it. To be honest it looks like it’s quite an old frame so ultimately going to replace it with new frame and then I can clean this one up properly and then it’ll be ready for reuse next year

You could put another box of the same type as your brood-box above the existing one and separated from it by an additional queen excluder, with the dodgy frame directly above the centre of the nest and an empty frame put in its place. Dummy it at the sides with some insulation board and first, maybe even add a few empty frames at the side of it for company...they may get filled with honey just now. Within a couple of weeks all the brood will have emerged. Any honey which may accumulate can be extracted and the frame is already in your hands for sorting.
EDIT: Just in a deep box used as a honey super is sufficient,, as long as you already use a QE.

 

[enrico]

I use the conveyor system. On inspection take a frame from one end. The second frame goes in that space and each one moves down in turn. if you want to keep the first frame you removed put it back in the space created at the other end. If you want to replace it just swap it for a new new one. As the frames reach the outside they tend to have less brood if any, and if they are full of brood you can stop at that point until it has emerged. Remove any offending frames and replace them as they reach the end. 12 inspections will see all frames reach the edge eventually!

 

[FullerBee]

You could put another box of the same type as your brood-box above the existing one and separated from it by an additional queen excluder, with the dodgy frame directly above the centre of the nest and an empty frame put in its place. Dummy it at the sides with some insulation board and first, maybe even add a few empty frames at the side of it for company...they may get filled with honey just now. Within a couple of weeks all the brood will have emerged. Any honey which may accumulate can be extracted and the frame is already in your hands for sorting.
EDIT: Just in a deep box used as a honey super is sufficient,, as long as you already use a QE.

Thanks, this was the alternative option I had thought about. The benefit here is that I reduce the risk of rolling bees, once it’s out the main brood box I won’t have to worry about that aspect.
What does anyone use for insulation that safe for the bees.
I presume that if I insert a second brood box (above current QE) that the bees will still get up and fill the super above it? Thanks!

 

[Erichalfbee]

PIR. That foil faced house insulation. Cut to size and seal off the edges with aluminium tape. Kingspan, Recticel, Celotex

 

[user 20297]

PIR. That foil faced house insulation. Cut to size and seal off the edges with aluminium tape. Kingspan, Recticel, Celotex

......a great tip from Andrew, who calls himself "Irish Bee" on You Tube; on the sides of the PIR dummies, where they slide against the wall of the box, he sticks something such as laminate flooring underlay. This means you can cut the boards slightly too narrow but they still have some "stiction". I've followed that advice but cut sections of that self-adhesive "felt" which you can use under the legs of tables or chairs in order to stop them scratching a wooden floor.

This means that the dummy boards are neither to loose or too tight, maiking adjustments less stressful.

 

[Erichalfbee]

......a great tip from Andrew, who calls himself "Irish Bee" on You Tube; on the sides of the PIR dummies, where they slide against the wall of the box, he sticks something such as laminate flooring underlay. This means you can cut the boards slightly too narrow but they still have some "stiction". I've followed that advice but cut sections of that self-adhesive "felt" which you can use under the legs of tables or chairs in order to stop them scratching a wooden floor.

This means that the dummy boards are neither to loose or too tight, maiking adjustements less stressful.

Don't the bees just eat into it?
Ive found a small gap all round doesn't matter to any bee or anybody but Derek Mitchell

 

[user 20297]

Don't the bees just eat into it?
Ive found a small gap all round doesn't matter to any bee or anybody but Derek Mitchell

I've not had problems with bees eating into any of the materials I've mentioned.

The reason for edging the insulating dummies is not related to insulation,although now you mention it I realise that you've astutely spotted another advantage . Rather, if you make a board a good, sliding fit in one box, (which isn't necessarily that easy in any case), it may be too tight or too loose for comfort in another box. By comfort I mean that it may be a pig to fit or remove or simply not stay in place.

I like the dummy-boards to stay proud of the box and protrude into the bee-space and abut the crownboard when I'm just working with a single brood-box. It gets more complicated when you want to keep dummying upwards into additional boxes.. This prevents errant bees, particularly those from other colonies, from sneaking in to the hive or feeding space by a back door.

As I said..it's not my idea...no ideas in beekeeping are, but it's modification which I like. At some point the use of PIR for dummy-boards alone will have been a novelty...did everyone immediately think that was a necessary or good idea?