Sugar wax

[bjosephd]

Evening All!

Honey is made from nectar processed by bees. If they have processed sugar syrup fed to them then it is not honey and it is ‘illegal’ or ‘a lie’ at the very least.

Wax aparently is a more ‘expensive product’ (by weight) than honey, and is certainly expensive for the bees.. So what is the status of wax that has been made from predominantly syrup fed bees?

Do (could) commercial beeswax producers just feed syrup, spin it out, render the wax, and then refeed the bee processed spun out syrup, and repeat? Does the product have a ‘legal’ or ‘trades descriptions/standards’ status?

Is there a difference between syrup wax and nectar wax? Or is it basically the same because it is PRODUCED by the bees, NOT PROCESSED by the bees.

BJD

 

[For want of a better word]

Perhaps they feed with soya or peanuts for substitute pollen protein too !

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

Is there a difference between syrup wax and nectar wax? Or is it basically the same because it is PRODUCED by the bees, NOT PROCESSED by the bees.

BJD

You must be the first in the world to ask that guestion.

No one has yet got into mind to do that. It needs too legistation to ban the whole sugar usage. So bad , so bad.

..... Chemically nectar and syrup sugar is very same. Bees are able to use boath as food.

Sugar is the basic of life on earth. Green plants store sun energy into sugar by splitting water to oxygen and hydrogen.

Then, the all life is made from sugar molecyles. Sugar is stored as fat, starch, as what ever.

Syrup wax.... Interesting.

.

 

[Finman]

Perhaps they feed with soya or peanuts for substitute pollen protein too !

Yeghes da

A bee is not a seed eater like sparrow.
.

 

[bjosephd]

Well I found the below online somewhere, but particularly interesting it says The exact composition of beeswax varies with location. which to me suggest that what the bees are consuming effects the makeup of the the wax.


"Beeswax consists of at least 284 different compounds, mainly a variety of long-chain alkanes, acids, esters, polyesters and hydroxy esters. These include free cerotic acid (hexacosanoic acid, CH3(CH2)14COOH), the ester of cerotic acid and triacontanol (CH3(CH2)29OH), myricin (myricyl palmitate, CH3(CH2)14COO(CH2)12CH3), and hentriacontane, CH3(CH2)29CH3.

Hentriacontane comprises 8-9% of beeswax, and its stability and impermeability to water contribute to the role it plays as a structural component. Although insoluble in water, beeswax can be dissolved in solvents such as carbon tetrachloride, chloroform, or warm ether. The exact composition of beeswax varies with location."

 

[Finman]

Two beewax to me: New and old. I do not nee to know more. Bees take care what they do.

 

[bjosephd]

Two beewax to me: New and old. I do not nee to know more. Bees take care what they do.

All very well

But if you were buying honey that was actually made from bees eating predominantly sugar syrup then I imagine your WOULD want to know?

So if I was a top end cosmetics producer (for example) and I found out my wax was inferior because it was made from an inferior and artificial food source then, again, I think you WOULD want to know.

That is if the wax is different.

If it is not, then what’s to stop someone having a few hives they feed all year round in order to produce drawn comb for production hives.

You get it drawn out on sugar syrup, spin out any excess. Then you have fresh clean drawn frames ready to go.

Your production hives need never draw a single cell.

Yet the honey you sell is genuine nectar honey, with no nectar wasted on drawing wax.

And you never take ‘honey’ from your wax drawing syrup hives.

 

[Poly Hive]

Is there actually a point to this?

PH

 

[Anduril]

Nectar is exuded in different concentrations, dependant on which flower they forage, beekeepers feed sugar syrup at different concentrations, in the US they have been using corn syrup. The workers produce wax from their wax glands, if there was a problem with the wax production we would have noticed by now. I wouldn't say that the wax is adulterated in any way as it comes out of their glands

 

[Finman]

All very well

But if you were buying honey that was actually made from bees eating predominantly sugar syrup ... .

syrup honey? What it has to do with syrup wax?

 

[Finman]

Is there actually a point to this?

PH

No. Not a bit.

 

[bjosephd]

Goodness I give up.

 

[Finman]

Goodness I give up.

There was nothing what to give up.
.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Goodness I give up.

Sugar is what fuels the bee. She makes wax but not with any of the sugar she ate as an ingredient in the wax. Sugar as a fuel is sugar. So the answer really is there is no difference.

 

[Noddy]

Some people have too much time on their hands, and not enough to worry about.

 

[Finman]

Some people have too much time on their hands, and not enough to worry about.

I can say that I have much more bigger things worry about than some theoretical sugar.

Have you survived so well through your life?.

 

[TooBee...]

Hi BJD

I do understand from where you are coming from. However I don't think it's commercially viable.

According to the books (that our Bees read) it takes 8 kilos of honey to produce 1 kilo of wax, so as honey has 20% water, that means it takes 6.4 kilos of sugar (we are assuming a like for like conversion, and keeping everything else overly simple).

Sugar costs £0.50 per kilo, so the 'raw material' will cost you £3.20 for 1 kilo of wax, I think that's about the same as the wholesale commercial cost of beeswax at the moment, so I don't think it's a starter. But an interesting idea.

Maybe a better application may be to dedicate one hive or a few Nucs to mainly 'drawn wax' production (I think Mike Palmer has mentioned something slightly like this in relation to Nucs), so that your Honey producing Hives don't use up any honey/nectar for wax production, so your Honey yield can be maximized in them (I understand you should not be feeding your bees during the nectar flow in case you contaminate your honey with the sugar - the commercial processors do test for this).

 

[SDM]

Well I found the below online somewhere, but particularly interesting it says The exact composition of beeswax varies with location. which to me suggest that what the bees are consuming effects the makeup of the the wax.


"Beeswax consists of at least 284 different compounds, mainly a variety of long-chain alkanes, acids, esters, polyesters and hydroxy esters. These include free cerotic acid (hexacosanoic acid, CH3(CH2)14COOH), the ester of cerotic acid and triacontanol (CH3(CH2)29OH), myricin (myricyl palmitate, CH3(CH2)14COO(CH2)12CH3), and hentriacontane, CH3(CH2)29CH3.

."

And you have an issue with anything there being made from

C12H22O11 ?

 

[Anduril]

And you have an issue with anything there being made from

C12H22O11 ?

If you don't know the answer, you ask the question, isn't this why we have forums?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Some people have too much time on their hands, and not enough to worry about.

A bit like the argument of cane vs beet......beet being GM in the USA
No DNA in refined sugar