Struggling here, any help appreciated.

[rebeldee]

We purchased a five frame nuc, within a hive, in June this year. The beek advised us to put a super on straight away, as the Q was quite prolific, and expect to have to do a split shortly afterwards. He was very experienced, and so we followed his advice. I have done an online course, read lots of books, trawled through many youtube videos etc etc. so went into this feeling pretty confident.

As always the bees don't read the books or watch the videos, so what was supposed to happen just didn't! Soon after we acquired the nuc, we had a bad outbreak of chalk brood. I went back to the beek who offered to replace the Q if things didn't improve in the next couple of weeks. The actually did, the bees dealt with it very well, and we thought onwards and upwards!

Anyway, the Q has been laying well since, but we wonder if the bout of chalk brood has set us back hive wise.

Currently they have five frames of brood, (so really no more than we started with!) and little stores. Q seen on all inspections, and whilst she slowed down in August, last inspection was laying well again. The super has virtually no stores either. Taking advice from experienced beeks (and yes I know, one question, fifteen answers!) we began feeding 2:1 syrup at the beginning of August, and the last ten days have been feeding fondant in a takeaway carton over the crown board.

The set up is currently, brood box, eke (where we were advised to pop a tray of Apiguard on, though there was no evidence of mites, and which the bees haven't hardly touched) then QE, crown board with said fondant, and roof.

I'd appreciate any help leading us into winter and hopefully keeping the hive alive. Currently I'd love just more than one person to give me the same answer, as I've asked on FB groups and replies range from, if you don't know what you're doing you shouldn't be keeping bees (!) to some of the advice I've mentioned above.

Thanks in advance.

 

[madasafish]

Where are you? Location helps.

Apiguard is unlikely to work well now as it requires 15C to be effective - hence location helps!

 

[simonwig]

Hi

I don’t think you’ve too much to worry about, but a few questions.

What type of brood box and construction (Poly or Wood)? If Wood and you can reduce the space in the box by removing a frame at each side and replacing with insulation board, less essential IMO if a poly box, but worth doing. Less space to heat.

How much stores in the brood box, how many frames of honey? This will tell us if the need feeding at this time. If they do I would be feeding 2:1 syrup rather than fondant, or even 1:1 if very low on stores. You probably need about 12-15kg of stores for that size colony to get through the winter and into spring. That’s five or six deep frames of stores. You have plenty of time to get the feed into them.

You mention a super with a little stores, not sure why you have a super on at this time with only five frames of bees (or have you taken it off?). I would effectively remove it and get the bees to empty it, by putting the crown board on the brood box with the super above it, and leaving a small gap (couple of bees wide) in the CB so the bees ‘rob’ the super down of any stores into the brood box.

When the super is empty close the gap and fill the super with insulation. You can place the feed on the crown board with the insulation over it (leaving the hole open).

And complete the full ApiGuard treatment but also treat in December with Oxalic Acid.

Simon

 

[roche]

We purchased a five frame nuc, within a hive, in June this year. The beek advised us to put a super on straight away, as the Q was quite prolific, and expect to have to do a split shortly afterwards. He was very experienced, and so we followed his advice. I have done an online course, read lots of books, trawled through many youtube videos etc etc. so went into this feeling pretty confident.

As always the bees don't read the books or watch the videos, so what was supposed to happen just didn't! Soon after we acquired the nuc, we had a bad outbreak of chalk brood. I went back to the beek who offered to replace the Q if things didn't improve in the next couple of weeks. The actually did, the bees dealt with it very well, and we thought onwards and upwards!

Anyway, the Q has been laying well since, but we wonder if the bout of chalk brood has set us back hive wise.

Currently they have five frames of brood, (so really no more than we started with!) and little stores. Q seen on all inspections, and whilst she slowed down in August, last inspection was laying well again. The super has virtually no stores either. Taking advice from experienced beeks (and yes I know, one question, fifteen answers!) we began feeding 2:1 syrup at the beginning of August, and the last ten days have been feeding fondant in a takeaway carton over the crown board.

The set up is currently, brood box, eke (where we were advised to pop a tray of Apiguard on, though there was no evidence of mites, and which the bees haven't hardly touched) then QE, crown board with said fondant, and roof.

I'd appreciate any help leading us into winter and hopefully keeping the hive alive. Currently I'd love just more than one person to give me the same answer, as I've asked on FB groups and replies range from, if you don't know what you're doing you shouldn't be keeping bees (!) to some of the advice I've mentioned above.

Thanks in advance.

Not quite clear - is the super on or off? You say the super has virtually no stores, then don't mention the super in the current set up...

 

[rebeldee]

Where are you? Location helps.

Apiguard is unlikely to work well now as it requires 15C to be effective - hence location helps!

Where are you? Location helps.

Apiguard is unlikely to work well now as it requires 15C to be effective - hence location helps!

Congleton, Cheshire. It was put on when the temp was in the 20s.

 

[rebeldee]

Not quite clear - is the super on or off? You say the super has virtually no stores, then don't mention the super in the current set up...

Sorry, my bad. Yes, the super is on.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The set up is currently, brood box, eke (where we were advised to pop a tray of Apiguard on, though there was no evidence of mites, and which the bees haven't hardly touched) then QE, crown board with said fondant, and roof.

Sounds ok just need more syrup. I presume all the frames are drawn. Then they need 7/8 frames full of food.
Apiguard won’t work now. It’s also a bit late to be treating but probably best to put in some Apivar strips.
Better than nothing.
Take the super off

 

[rebeldee]

Hi

I don’t think you’ve too much to worry about, but a few questions.

What type of brood box and construction (Poly or Wood)? If Wood and you can reduce the space in the box by removing a frame at each side and replacing with insulation board, less essential IMO if a poly box, but worth doing. Less space to heat.

How much stores in the brood box, how many frames of honey? This will tell us if the need feeding at this time. If they do I would be feeding 2:1 syrup rather than fondant, or even 1:1 if very low on stores. You probably need about 12-15kg of stores for that size colony to get through the winter and into spring. That’s five or six deep frames of stores. You have plenty of time to get the feed into them.

You mention a super with a little stores, not sure why you have a super on at this time with only five frames of bees (or have you taken it off?). I would effectively remove it and get the bees to empty it, by putting the crown board on the brood box with the super above it, and leaving a small gap (couple of bees wide) in the CB so the bees ‘rob’ the super down of any stores into the brood box.

When the super is empty close the gap and fill the super with insulation. You can place the feed on the crown board with the insulation over it (leaving the hole open).

And complete the full ApiGuard treatment but also treat in December with Oxalic Acid.

Simon

Wooden brood box. We don't even have two full frames of stores, as the Q has started strongly again, so there are some capped and uncapped stores around the brood.

Super is still on, as I said, the beek we bought from said to put it on straightaway! Made sense to take it off to me as it wasn't filling, but kept getting conflicting advice. Most said to pop it under the brood box, but this seems to make more sense. Thank you.

 

[simonwig]

Wooden brood box. We don't even have two full frames of stores, as the Q has started strongly again, so there are some capped and uncapped stores around the brood.

They have enough stores to keep going, so I would feed 2:1 to build up stores for winter. As I said, there's plenty of time.
Simon

 

[Ian123]

Get the super off it’s a waste of space and energy. Get any treatments you want on, for ease I’d go with apivar. I’d then start feeding edging undrawn empty frames up against the brood area. As to the chalk brood any decent suppliers shouldn’t/wouldn’t tolerate that in a nuc and really should have replaced IMO.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The general rule is for a nuc to be put into a brood box and it is fed/allowed to grow until it pretty much fills the brood box before putting a super on, so it's odd advice you were given.
I have also seen some poor advice on FB - but I haven't been on FB for years.

 

[rebeldee]

The general rule is for a nuc to be put into a brood box and it is fed/allowed to grow until it pretty much fills the brood box before putting a super on, so it's odd advice you were given.
I have also seen some poor advice on FB - but I haven't been on FB for years.

Thank you. We have found that out since. The beek just kept saying the Q was so prolific she'd have the brood box filled in no time, but assuming due to the chalk brood issue, she hasn't.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you. We have found that out since. The beek just kept saying the Q was so prolific she'd have the brood box filled in no time, but assuming due to the chalk brood issue, she hasn't.

If the chalk brood has sorted then my guess you had it because the colony was chilled in too big a space
General rule of thumb is to super when all brood frames are drawn and there are 7 frames solid with brood.
If they have two frames of stores only they are going to need around 12 -15 litres of syrup
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong please

 

[roche]

Sorry, my bad. Yes, the super is on.

Definitely super off - as Ian123 says - waste of space and energy. Feed syrup, as Dani says 12-15 litres may be needed. Not much forage around now.

 

[Poly Hive]

It might be 7 frames down south but up here it's 8.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As always the bees don't read the books

Neither did your 'very experienced' beek by the sounds of it - putting a five frame nuc straight into a hive with a super was pretty poor advice. by giving them all that space to heat they probably struggled and that chalkbrood was most probably chilled brood which they couldn't keep warm

 

[user 819]

5 brood is ok this time of year, though obviously the colony really struggled, preferably if you can insulate above the crown board do so once settled for winter so the least heat is lost from the top as possible. They will need 30- 40lbs of stores to see them through to spring so you will need 7 or 8 brood frames filled with stores if BS deep or 6 -7 for 14 x 12, one can feed well in to October so there is time for stores to be laid up.
Remove the super unless you use it as an eke for fondant feeding.

It sounds like they have some stores but not much so from you description one can guess maybe about 6 or 7lbs, you will need approx. 30 more lbs of stores. 5kg/11lbs of sugar mixed with 6 pints hot tap water will make up approx. 13.5 lbs of stores so they will need at least 10kg of sugar, 12 - 14kg more likely.

If feeding fondant don't faff around with little amounts above the feed hole, simply place a whole 12.5kg box on top of the brood frames inside an eke (in total they will likely need 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 boxes as feed) leave the fondant as it is wrapped up and make some cuts in the bottom for them to access. If a deep eke play some insulation PIR under the crown board (CB), if not a deep eke place the PIR on top of the CB.
Also if going the fondant route I would be inclined to leave maybe 2 empty frames and then dummy down and fill the rest of the space so heat isn't lost. if they fill those frames then add one more at a time moving the stores out and placing the empty (drawn if poss) next to the brood to fill up.

 

[krennie]

We purchased a five frame nuc, within a hive, in June this year. The beek advised us to put a super on straight away, as the Q was quite prolific, and expect to have to do a split shortly afterwards. He was very experienced, and so we followed his advice. I have done an online course, read lots of books, trawled through many youtube videos etc etc. so went into this feeling pretty confident.

As always the bees don't read the books or watch the videos, so what was supposed to happen just didn't! Soon after we acquired the nuc, we had a bad outbreak of chalk brood. I went back to the beek who offered to replace the Q if things didn't improve in the next couple of weeks. The actually did, the bees dealt with it very well, and we thought onwards and upwards!

Anyway, the Q has been laying well since, but we wonder if the bout of chalk brood has set us back hive wise.

Currently they have five frames of brood, (so really no more than we started with!) and little stores. Q seen on all inspections, and whilst she slowed down in August, last inspection was laying well again. The super has virtually no stores either. Taking advice from experienced beeks (and yes I know, one question, fifteen answers!) we began feeding 2:1 syrup at the beginning of August, and the last ten days have been feeding fondant in a takeaway carton over the crown board.

The set up is currently, brood box, eke (where we were advised to pop a tray of Apiguard on, though there was no evidence of mites, and which the bees haven't hardly touched) then QE, crown board with said fondant, and roof.

I'd appreciate any help leading us into winter and hopefully keeping the hive alive. Currently I'd love just more than one person to give me the same answer, as I've asked on FB groups and replies range from, if you don't know what you're doing you shouldn't be keeping bees (!) to some of the advice I've mentioned above.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why did you edit out your reply, krennie?
I’ve popped the thread into beginners so there shouldn’t be any silly replies

 

[krennie]

Why did you edit out your reply, krennie?
I’ve popped the thread into beginners so there shouldn’t be any silly replies

thankyou! I just thought it didn't add to the questions that were being asked - just me being a bit mournful?