Smoker...should it be used at entrance before inspections?

[Antipodes]

I use very little smoke, In my opinion gouts of smoke pumped into the hive whether at the entrance, under the crownboard, or over anywhere else in most cases just winds the bees up rather than calms them.
This 'Forest fire' theory of them filling their bellies in evacuation mode and this making them calmer is another story which should be catalogued under 'beekeeping myths and magic'

Agree about the forest fire evacuation myth. With so many fires burning beekeepers' hives here in recent years, there is ample evidence that the bees don't leave the hive, they just burn to death when the hive burns.

 

[Norton Caff]

I was told smoking the entrance alerts the guard bees and it's best to not bother them!

 

[Patrick1]

Yes, I think that BeeBase document is basically right. It makes sense - but there will always be exceptions. There might have been another reason why your bees felt grumpy during that inspection (or, perhaps you just gave them a fright when opening the hive).

I light my smoker, but often completely forget about it, and only use a light spray of water - particularly before putting one box back on top of another. I forgot my smoker at home on my last visit to the heather (an hour and a half's drive away) but fortunately did remember my water spray bottle - and that was all I needed. The bees were fine.

PS: When smoking from the top, as people have already said, just open the crown board slightly, and give them a short, gentle puff - that's all. (Sorry about all my PS editing.)

I only use water with a nice smelly stuff diluted in it on all my 300 + colonies, everything is gentle and slow, no banging about or squashing bees. I have loads of reasons for not smoking, it scatters the bees making it harder to find teh all important queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

. I'm referring to a very dark coloured Apis mellifera scutellata which I believe you may be familiar with Mr JBM. (Lesotho & Eastern Cape)..
.......Perhaps they are the exception to the rule...

I must say that I quickly learnt that with Adansoni (now re-labelled Scutellata, but exactly the same bee) that in most cases the application of smoke was the cause of agression rather than the cure, first inspection I did I (as per my own hives) just wafted a little smoke across the entrance and dived in - they were like lambs, in fact, from then on the only times I wore gloves was when I was doing some pretty intrusive stuff or was expecting to get very sticky from honey. I also found than a small puff of smoke across the frames resulted in the bees all shuffling out through the entrance and bearding on the side of the hive leaving me clear frames to inspect. Once I had closed up again - in they moved!

 

[BernardBlack]

I gave entrance a couple of puffs.

Don’t tend to use smoke much after, except when checking frames nearer the front. Then they seem to get more agitated.

There’s usually a lot of bees the tops of frames just as I’m about to put crown board back, so I have to use a fair bit to drive them back down, otherwise I risk squashing some with the crown board.

 

[Angry_Mob]

Think I've lit the smoker twice this year and by the end of my rounds I've gave up on it as its just as convenient without it. Use my clove cloth if I need to get the bees off the top of the frames or water spray when I remember.

 

[Show me the honey]

It seems counter intuitive to me to smoke the entrance, which encourages the bees up, then you need smoke to encourage them down.
I never smoke the entrance and find I need very little smoke during inspections. Perhaps the odd puff if they congregate at the lugs of the frames and refuse to move, that’s about all.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to encourage them up into say supers That don’t need checking therefore making the brood box less congested? I smoke from the top as that’s i I was shown and not really thought about it till now

 

[Murox]

To me the smoker is just another tool; it's one I nearly always light and take with with me but seldom actually use because smoke excites and drives bee away from the source, useful at times but for the most part not needed.

I do like the idea of Angry_Mob's 'clove cloth' though.

 

[Madge]

... I'm referring to a very dark coloured Apis mellifera scutellata ... Please note, not all bees are as dark as these, just a handful and usually the ones responsible for stings... Perhaps they are the exception to the rule...

I'm off-topic now - but regarding your dark scutellata ... I've never ever seen any bees as dark as those in SA. I only ever saw yellow-striped ones. Perhaps you're right: they must be the exception. Is the whole colony like that? Are they healthy? I don't think the old brood combs would have affected the colour of the bees. Below, the more usual coloured scutellata (my photo - not from a Google search):

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Wouldn’t it make more sense to encourage them up into say supers That don’t need checking therefore making the brood box less congested? I smoke from the top as that’s i I was shown and not really thought about it till now

It still means you encouraged the bees into the top box you are about to take the lid off!

 

[Spikedog]

Whereas will always have a smoker to hand I find mild water spray to be less antagonising to the bees.

 

[redpig]

Very rarely light the smoker as I've discovered that i don't normally need to use it. Some colonies seem to ignore it and some go batshit crazy.
The best way i find is to be slow, calm and gentle, but there will always be occasion when a frame slips out of your fingers or the rubber glove gets stuck underneath and twangs back at you, then again some colonies will ignore it and some will go batshit crazy.
Each to their own i suppose.

 

[Michael ECB's]

I'm off-topic now - but regarding your dark scutellata ... I've never ever seen any bees as dark as those in SA. I only ever saw yellow-striped ones. Perhaps you're right: they must be the exception. Is the whole colony like that? Are they healthy? I don't think the old brood combs would have affected the colour of the bees. Below, the more usual coloured scutellata (my photo - not from a Google search):

No, entire colony not like this,,, they are truly the exception. I have been asked to collect some and send to one of our leading universities and intent to do so once warmed up and able to collect from what I believe to be the original swarm. (Wild colony I have left alone - truly mental) 2 x Dogs taken out 3 years.. Common belief here is they have adapted to living in our mountains and fending for themselves, I choose to believe this one.. Baboons here have become an issue and have taken an interest in Honey, I'm told one our local farmers here had fitted steel bars and chains around hive boxes until eventually giving up..
Another pic shows some of the colour variants here... We have a Biogas digester on one of our farming units that process a lot of sugar/chocolate by products... Syrup, caster sugar, chocolate, caramel etc etc etc... Lots and lots of bees... Summer time, we quit working this waste by 10h30 in the morning and let the bees carry on.

 

[Madge]

No, entire colony not like this,,, they are truly the exception. I have been asked to collect some and send to one of our leading universities ... We have a Biogas digester on one of our farming units that process a lot of sugar/chocolate by products...

Michael, at least two of those bees look diseased to me! The two top ones with the shiny bodies. CBPV? Varroa is in SA, isn't it? (See The Apiarist here. Scroll down the page to the photo of bees with CBPV.) The black bee looks healthy - but black!? I'm glad you're going to send some to be analysed.

And then all that sugary waste from the bio-digester ... I don't suppose you collect honey from colonies that have access to all that stuff, do you? Can't all that waste be covered up?

 

[Erichalfbee]

We have a Biogas digester on one of our farming units that process a lot of sugar/chocolate by products... Syrup, caster sugar, chocolate, caramel etc etc etc... Lots and lots of bees... Summer time, we quit working this waste by 10h30 in the morning and let the bees carry on.

Oh no! That’s awful. I would have to give up beekeeping

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No, entire colony not like this,,, they are truly the exception......... Common belief here is they have adapted to living in our mountains and fending for themselves,

I spoke to a beekeeper/honey hunter in Lesotho once and he did say that although most bees were pretty manageable and not overly agressive, some darker bees in the highlands could be a nightmare.
Although saying that, I was shown a colony living in a shipping container by the school in Ha Lazaro (Elevation 2,262 metres) above the Quiteng gorge and I could get right up to the colony without being bothered at all
Francis Smith in his book 'Beekeeping in the tropics' also mentions darker varieties of Afansonii being found in the highlands.
In general Adansonii tend to be predominantly yellow, usually the first three segments and a yellow scutella (probably why, now it seems to have been renamed Scutellata) as well as yellow hair.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Michael, at least two of those bees look diseased to me! The two top ones with the shiny bodies. CBPV? Varroa is in SA, isn't it?

Varroa might be in Southern Africa but the bees don't seem that much bothered by it (Steve Martin mentioned the fact that Southern hemisphere bees in general can tolerate varroa) In fact, during a meeting with the forestry minister and the Beekeeping officer for Lesotho I mentioned varroa and her assistant (a very knowledgeable Algerian beekeeper with very little English so we had to use a mixture of English and my very poor French) just looked up from his notes and said 'ah yes, I think I saw a varroa last year', and promptly went back to his notebook!!

 

[Michael ECB's]

Michael, at least two of those bees look diseased to me! The two top ones with the shiny bodies. CBPV? Varroa is in SA, isn't it? (See The Apiarist here. Scroll down the page to the photo of bees with CBPV.) The black bee looks healthy - but black!? I'm glad you're going to send some to be analysed.

And then all that sugary waste from the bio-digester ... I don't suppose you collect honey from colonies that have access to all that stuff, do you? Can't all that waste be covered up?

Waste processing site far away from my bees, waste bags are opened and processed immediately, however, when you're processing large amounts as we do small pieces fall, drips happen when unloading, sticky residue left on outside of bags and tractor tyres etc etc,,, It;s impossible to cover up everything, it is after all a processing unit to convert animal waste/Poo into energy,,, rather have a bit of chocolate laying around than the other stuff that we feed here...
As far as diseases go,
I have been very fortunate and have never had any varroa mites, thought I did once when inspecting a cutout in quarantine but turned out to be Braula...
Dont want to hijack the thread but will post a pic if I can find it... My heart sank when I first spotted it... Then it was gone???
Re harvesting Honey,,, well I did remove a wild colony less than a Km away a few months back and yes, I removed all the honey ( small hive beetles)
It was the second best I have ever had, very dark and very rich,,, the only way i could explain is it burnt the back of your throat it was so sweet...?? was it from the chocolate waste? Uncertain... Tasted great over pork rashers....

 

[Michael ECB's]

Braula fly on the queen and a couple of workers on the right.. My apologies for hijacking the thread Mr Fiat-500..
Such a calm colony and good little workers they have become... One month after this , no more Braula .....
Only the strongest survive here in Africa...

 

[fiat500bee]

My apologies for hijacking the thread Mr Fiat-500..

..no apologies please. Michael....it's not my forum. It's all about bees and that's all that matters.