Sex alleles

[Finman]

If a queen mates with 17 drones - which is the reported average - and there are 17 sex alleles in the local population, then she is statistically likely to mate with at least 2 drones that have sex alleles matching her own. Presuming mixing of the semen in her spermatheca, this means she will lay 1 in 17 eggs as a diploid drone. Six percent of the eggs the queen lays will be disposed of by the workers. Now think about some of those shot brood patterns you sometimes see with no good reason for sealed cells to be so scattered. Lets change the odds. Put 51 sex alleles into the local breeding population. Now when a queen mates with 17 drones, the odds form a statistical curve with very high probability that she mates with no drones having matching sex alleles. 100% of her eggs hatch into workers and the brood pattern is very solid. Take this to the logical conclusion and presume that drone source colonies are typed so that their sex alleles are all ID'd and the breeder queen has sex alleles that do not match any of the drone producers. It does not matter if the drone colonies produce only 2 alleles because all the drone producing queens have the same pair of alleles, so long as the breeder queen's alleles do not match, all of the eggs laid by the resulting mated queens will hatch into viable workers. This concept was proven by Cale back in the 1960's and is a highly effective way to increase honey production by a few percentage points.

You are correct that the average beekeeper can't do much about the sex alleles in his bees. I submit that serious queen breeders should be typing their queens to determine which sex alleles they are propagating and ensure that as many as possible are retained in the breeding population.

Genetics 50 years ago is a long way from what is known of genetics today.

We have a limited number of sex alleles in honeybees in the U.S. I would very much like to see that number doubled or even tripled. Because the sex allele is under reinforced selection, the tendency is to retain diversity in a population.

You do not know what you are writing.

Genetics have developed in 50 years! Are you sure?

If you try to cancel my university education, you are late. I have earned my living with my education.

In USA millions of people believe, that God created all species. They have voted about that.

Then Senate decided that Indians are American's first Americans, and USA has not given funds to reseach the earlier people who lived in Nort America.
.
Too few sex alleles in USA? Senate can vote about that!

Those earlier people lived in south tip of Argentina before the second world war, but Argentina succeeded to kill them all. Tasmania did the same. No voting.
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Fusion!. Sun rises from East, and sets down in West!
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[Fusion_power]

I have earned my living with my education.

Here I thought you married a rich woman and fiddle with honeybees in your leisure time.

finman, I deliberately did not disparage your education because an education is a very valuable thing to have. I do however state with certainty that what is known of genetics today far exceeds what was known 50 years ago. At that time, the Watson/Crick model of the DNA molecule was still new and fresh. Today we have detailed gene maps of such life forms as the western honeybee.

What we know of genetics today will become much greater in years to come. With the potential of Crispr, designer genomes are potentially within reach. Want a honeybee with 9 mm long tongue? It should be easy to do with crispr. Like the color red? Make a red honeybee. Want more honey? Make a queen that has twice as many ovarioles and lays twice as many eggs. This sounds unimaginable to us, but our children will see just such possibilities unfold.

 

[Finman]

I do however state with certainty that what is known of genetics today far exceeds what was known 50 years ago. At that time, the Watson/Crick model of the DNA molecule was still new and fresh. Today we have detailed gene maps of such life forms as the western honeybee.

And you still try to explain, that when I started my university education in the year 1967, my learning stopped to those foot prints.

I have allways believed that good basic education gives a possibility to learn and understand things later and omit new things from that area, what it going on in the world.

And what university really teached 5 years was, that you learn to make difference with rubbish and real facts.

But, are you sure that there is some kind of genemap. That I cannot believe.

Today Western honey bee genemap. You must be kidding. Today? I believed that it was ready 13 years ago.

Oh dear. How fast time goes. And some ordinary guy is hunting for sex alleles. Respect for his testosterone level.
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[Finman]

Here I thought you ....
Want more honey? Make a queen that has twice as many ovarioles and lays twice as many eggs. This sounds unimaginable to us, but our children will see just such possibilities unfold.

Fusion. Move your hives to better pastures. It is first step when you want more honey. It is only way to rise honey yield.

Evolution has optimized the bee tongue to such, what it is. And long tongue does not get more nectar from empty flower. You have too much hives in same place. Lift your arse and move them.

To see red? Bees see well fireweed's red flower, and they may get 130 kg honey in 3 weeks from those red flowers.

And bees can forage sugar liquid from surfaces, what ever the color is. Like honey dew from under side of green leaves. Use your branes before it is too late.


Key word : Lift!

 

[B+.]

Like the color red? Make a red honeybee. Want more honey? Make a queen that has twice as many ovarioles and lays twice as many eggs.

While such things may become possible, the question of whether they should be done is another matter. Nothing happems in a vacuum, and, changes such as tongue length could affect the development of plants so that nectaries were located so deep in the throat of the flower that "unimproved" bees simply couldn't reach them. What would happen to other pollinators then?
Be careful about playing God Fusion_power. You may not like the world you wish to create.

 

[Finman]

Be careful about playing God Fusion_power. You may not like the world you wish to create.

Don't worry as long he sits behind his computer.
.our duty is to keep him there.
.

 

[Finman]

Be careful about playing God Fusion_power. You may not like the world you wish to create.

Don't worry, as long he sits behind his computer.
.Our duty is to keep him there.
.

 

[For want of a better word]

Don't worry, as long he sits behind his computer.
.Our duty is to keep him there.
.

No surprise there... most people in the USA believe God invented the computer!

Nos da

 

[Eyeman]

I presume these sex alleles can be influences by environmental conditions (epigentics) therefore some may be switched on and others may be switched off.
You may have 50+ sex alleles but if only 10 are switched on then you are more likely to see the consequences of inbreeding.

 

[Finman]

You may have 50+ sex alleles but if only 10 are switched on then you are more likely to see the consequences of inbreeding.

Are they all 50 in same individual?

I think that they are in different individuals. They are variations of same gene.

 

[REDWOOD]

No surprise there... most people in the USA believe God invented the computer!



Nos da

Debatable but not here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[user 6228]

No surprise there... most people in the USA believe God invented the computer!

Nos da

they'll get a surprise to know it came from an English cake shop

 

[B+.]

they'll get a surprise to know it came from an English cake shop

Reference please? Are you referring to Charles Babbage?
My earliest knowledge was the punched card used on the Jacquard loom which became the fore-runner to punched cards used in computers.
Of course, none of it would be possible without George Booles work in algebra in the 19th Century.

 

[For want of a better word]

Reference please? Are you referring to Charles Babbage?
My earliest knowledge was the punched card used on the Jacquard loom which became the fore-runner to punched cards used in computers.
Of course, none of it would be possible without George Booles work in algebra in the 19th Century.

Upon the shoulders of Great men!

Yeghes da

 

[Fusion_power]

Don't forget Alan Turing who visualized and built a stored memory computer. Yet he was convicted of "crimes against nature" and made into a societal pariah. Yes, brits are indeed an enigmatic bunch.

I presume these sex alleles can be influences by environmental conditions (epigentics) therefore some may be switched on and others may be switched off. You may have 50+ sex alleles but if only 10 are switched on then you are more likely to see the consequences of inbreeding.

The sex locus does not work as inferred. Read the referenced article by Lechner and you will see that it is unique in that diversity is not just preserved, it is also actively selected in the bee population. Some genes are neutral conveying neither advantage nor disadvantage. These genes are subject to gradual disappearance from the genome. Some genes convey a positive advantage which gets slow but steady increase in the genome. Some genes are negative and tend to be eliminated from a genome. Some genes are critical to a given genome. These are always conserved, neither increasing nor decreasing but always present. Then there is a unique but very small set of genes that behave as the sex locus in honeybees. Any amount of inbreeding results in a colony less fit and therefore less able to survive. This results in conservation of as many variants of the sex locus as necessary to avoid inbreeding. I could show a fairly decent proof that it takes about 50 sex alleles for a population to stabilize with little or no inbreeding. Kangaroo Island would then bring some interesting discussion points to the table given that there are only 6 sex alleles present in the population of Ligustica present there.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Don't forget Alan Turing who visualized and built a stored memory computer. Yet he was convicted of "crimes against nature" and made into a societal pariah. Yes, brits are indeed an enigmatic bunch.

Almost as bad as industrial scale slavery or making people travel on separate buses because of the colour of their skin

 

[B+.]

Don't forget Alan Turing who visualized and built a stored memory computer.

A mere newcomer ;-)

 

[B+.]

Upon the shoulders of Great men!

Indeed.
In all fields of endeavour.

 

[Beefriendly]

Almost as bad as industrial scale slavery or making people travel on separate buses because of the colour of their skin

Lest we forget....British ships carried around 3.4 million enslaved Africans to the Americas.

 

[Beefriendly]

I presume these sex alleles can be influences by environmental conditions (epigentics) therefore some may be switched on and others may be switched off.
You may have 50+ sex alleles but if only 10 are switched on then you are more likely to see the consequences of inbreeding.

It doesn't work like that. It's to do with pairing of the alleles. If identical you get diploid males, if different you get female workers/queens. They are not switched on/off as such. The pair of alleles interact to determine the sex of fertilised eggs.