'runners'

[Ape Resi]

hello everyone,
I am trying to find out more on castellated vs. smooth runners for frames...
I have both one on each hive and i find the castellated ones a flaff to use and frames never hang straight and a bit difficult as if I remove a frame i can't just slide the next one along after inspecting...
is it just me? what do people think?
thanks, Resi

 

[plumberman]

Castellated runners are usually for supers above the QE. They increase frame spacing and mean that you have less frames for the same amount of storage space. Bees can be a little reluctant to draw them out fully.

They are, IMO, a pain in the rear end if used accidentally/out of desperation for brood and a waste of brood space. Pull em out and use hoffmanns.

 

[beeboybee]

runners all round for me but i use hoffman frames in the brood and wide plastic spacers on the super frames

 

[Ape Resi]

ok!

so my 'gut feeling' to replace them in the brood box with smooth runners is a good idea sounds like!

as i am now in my 2nd summer I have some drawn comb - I could swap smooth runner form the super into the brood and get the castellated into the super so they can fill the wider spaced comb to their leisure...

cheers for the help! R

 

[plumberman]

ok!

so my 'gut feeling' to replace them in the brood box with smooth runners is a good idea sounds like!

as i am now in my 2nd summer I have some drawn comb - I could swap smooth runner form the super into the brood and get the castellated into the super so they can fill the wider spaced comb to their leisure...

cheers for the help! R

- Yes: if you alternate drawn comb and foundation with the castellated runners the bees get the hang of it better. Otherwise they appear to delight in chewing holes in it.

 

[VEG]

If you dont have anything to replace them take them off and turn them over, then put them back on with the straight edge up.

 

[Ape Resi]

great thanks!
all my frames are drawn now - or will be soon so i can have them on castellated supers

am i right to think buying Hoffman super frames tho was an un-needed luxury??? i.e. no need for self spacing frames with the castellated runners! dooo...

next - the 14 x 12 brood box... just a 1.5 (bb+super) in one box???

this beekeeping thing is proving quite a brain teaser!

thanks again for reading!

 

[oliver90owner]

I have both one on each hive

No wonder you are having trouble!!

Castellations might be OK if you want regular sized finished frames in the supers. Other than that, they suck!

Regards, RAB

 

[MuswellMetro]

everytime i inspect my friends hives while he is on holiday i rip my rubber gloves to shreds as he uses metal castelations,

He uses 32mm metal ones in his brood box from the late D Cushman

he is also experimenting with smaller 4.9mm foundation, he says he get less varroa but i have not seen much improvement, seems very subjective

 

[hedgerow pete]

dead against castelations and use only flat strips mainly of ceramic tile edge beed as its cheaper than metal

 

[YorkshireBees]

Personally (and I think spacers vs castellations vs whatever method is a personal choice) I go with smooth runners or even no runners in the BB with narrow plastic spacers in the BB's. The reason is you need to be able to move the frames sideways during manipulations.
In the supers you need initially 11 frames (talking BS hives) so although have some supers with 11 frame castellations I would probably recommend plastic spacers initially as when you have drawn comb you can move to either 10 or even 9 frame spacing. I still prefer castellations in the supers at the moment as I don't want to deal with so many plastic spacer ends or pay extra for Hoffman frames.

My opinion but as I say everyoe has their preference and as I am finding out you discover through experience which method works best for you.

 

[Hivemaker.]

In the supers you need initially 11 frames (talking BS hives)

No you don't,ten is the least amount you can use starting with foundation.

 

[oliver90owner]

I often start with 12 if the frames are all foundation. They can soon be thinned down in numbers - usually to nine as the frames get drawn.

RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

I often start with 12 if the frames are all foundation. They can soon be thinned down in numbers - usually to nine as the frames get drawn.

RAB

Like to see you get 12 Manley frames in a national super. But then of course you could'nt...lol.

 

[Heather]

For a brood box- 10 or 11 space castellation?

 

[YorkshireBees]

For a brood box- 10 or 11 space castellation?

Don't put catellations in a brood box, please!

As I said earlier it will just make manipulations harder!
If you use castellations in a brood box you cannot slide frames sideways to prevent rolling bees when lifting a frame out for inspection. Also if, like my bees, they build comb not exactly straight on some frames then you will have problems lifting that or the frame next to it out of the BB.

 

[YorkshireBees]

In the supers you need initially 11 frames (talking BS hives)

No you don't,ten is the least amount you can use starting with foundation.

Ok, OK but in my limited experience 11 was the most common number used for foundation, then again my experience IS limited and I should have qualified it further by saying that I use SN1 frames and narrow plastic end spaces, or at least did originally.

or maybe I was just talking BS

 

[WoodenBeam]

From my mentor which has worked for me
Hoffmans in the brood box, Manleys in the supers, after the initial foundation has been drawn & honey has been extracted, drawn Manleys back in the supers on castillations, 9 per super.
But, as other comments, whatever works for you

 

[justme]

Don't put catellations in a brood box, please!

As I said earlier it will just make manipulations harder!
If you use castellations in a brood box you cannot slide frames sideways to prevent rolling bees when lifting a frame out for inspection. Also if, like my bees, they build comb not exactly straight on some frames then you will have problems lifting that or the frame next to it out of the BB.

I personally only use runners but both group assoc apiaries I go to have castellations right through. I find that ifI use a j tool I can lift the frames up ok, when the first 1 is removed we've been taught to move each 1 as inspected back to sit on the top ofthe previous castellation so we dont roll the bees. Works ok and surprisingly they seem to draw comb ok.

 

[Gardenbees]

Perhaps have a look at what other beeks have in the area and see which you prefer? It's personal taste really, but I've never met anyone who tried castellated spacers in a brood box more than once! Very awkward.

I use white plastic runners with a fine layer of vegetable shortening over the edges, but then my Buckfast girls produce vast quantities of propolis which really slows down inspections without something to ease the frames. I use these with Hoffmans in all boxes, reducing the super frames from 12 to ten (I use the partly-drawn spare two frames to start up the next super - it seems to encourage them to go up into the next box). Personally I hate bitty things like plastic spacers - too much faff, and a sticky mess with my bees. But each to their own.