Fiddling vs curiosity/necessity

[Vanterrier]

Picking up on the "don't fiddle vs curiosity" advice elsewhere on here... I put a full slab of fondant on top of a queen excluder direct on the top bars a while ago when advised to feed my colony urgently.
I have been weighing since and can see the weight falling slowly. I know they don't need more feed (yet) but I was considering using the upcoming warmer spell (12deg) to investigate if there is any fondant left above the QE. If its gone/moved below, I was intending to remove the plastic wrap and the insulation placed above it in the eke and fit the PIR with the feed hole ready for when I do need to start feeding again in January when the weather might be colder for doing all of this.
It's a pretty straight forward dismantle and rebuild exercise but I'm worried about how long it might take me to remove a propolised QE and whether to just leave the QE in place?
Obviously I would not be doing anything below the QE. I will place the inspection board in to limit the uprush and loss of warm air when I remove the crown.
Of course if I lift the roof and crown and find the fondant still in place I will just leave it all in place and refit the roof.
So my main question is about whether I can or should just leave the QE in place?
K

 

[Curly green finger's]

Picking up on the "don't fiddle vs curiosity" advice elsewhere on here... I put a full slab of fondant on top of a queen excluder direct on the top bars a while ago when advised to feed my colony urgently.
I have been weighing since and can see the weight falling slowly. I know they don't need more feed (yet) but I was considering using the upcoming warmer spell (12deg) to investigate if there is any fondant left above the QE. If its gone/moved below, I was intending to remove the plastic wrap and the insulation placed above it in the eke and fit the PIR with the feed hole ready for when I do need to start feeding again in January when the weather might be colder for doing all of this.
It's a pretty straight forward dismantle and rebuild exercise but I'm worried about how long it might take me to remove a propolised QE and whether to just leave the QE in place?
Obviously I would not be doing anything below the QE. I will place the inspection board in to limit the uprush and loss of warm air when I remove the crown.
Of course if I lift the roof and crown and find the fondant still in place I will just leave it all in place and refit the roof.
So my main question is about whether I can or should just leave the QE in place?
K

Leave it in place I would , I have a mixture of qxs in place but I do prefer to put the fondant straight on top of the frames this time of year the frame qxs can still leave a colony unable to access the fondant because of the bee space so I use the metal unframed ones .

Is adding fondant or removing a qx fiddling ? your not pulling frames and the hive will be open for seconds.
Here’s a thought about resealing the cb when you crack the cb run a blow torch along the edge and then put the cb back on,the warmed propolis sticks the cb back down .

 

[Garry R]

I remove the QX in the autumn never to be seen again until summer. I have a crown board and an insulated roof on top. Once I need fondant I take a panel out of the bag and quickly remove the crown board and put a 2.5" eke on and then the fondant directly on the frame tops above whee you see the cluster. Crownboard on and insulated roof on. 2 minute job tops. If you are trickling oxalic later lift the crown board and just do it. Much easier than if a QX is in the way. Also no guessing whether the hole in the crownboard matches the posiition of the cluster. In beekeeping make everything as easy as possible for yourself but balancing that effort with what is best for the bees. In winter I don't open the bees indiscriminately but the jons I have to do - fondant or trickling I just go ahead irrespective of temperature for the seconds it takes.

 

[Amari]

Once I need fondant I take a panel out of the bag and quickly remove the crown board and put a 2.5" eke on and then the fondant directly on the frame tops above whee you see the cluster.

Whenever I've tried to place the fondant on the bars I find there are bees in the way, which would perish if the fondant is plonked upon them. Maybe you smoke them down?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Whenever I've tried to place the fondant on the bars I find there are bees in the way, which would perish if the fondant is plonked upon them. Maybe you smoke them down?

You can try but if it’s colder they don’t move much when it’s warmer looser cluster they do move ,I think that’s why it’s a plan to use a qx

 

[drex]

If I feed fondant I put it on a framed QX immediately on top of top bars. Then, if I need to access frames ( which , i admit is rare at that time of year) , I just lift the qx and fondant up. If placed direct on top bars, the fondant can end up well stuck to them. If any fondant is left at end of season, it is also much easier to remove. No bees squashed either, Amari.

 

[ericbeaumont]

a propolised QE

Drawback of off-season dismantlement is that joints propolised shut in autumn will not match when re-fitted, leading to a reduction in thermal efficiency.

If you need to remove the QX, scrape the box & roof rims (20secs) and have a clean QX ready.

 

[Vanterrier]

Thanks all, I think I will try lifting the frameless metal QE but if its well stuck I'll leave it in place.
A poly, framed crown board with a feed hole is next then a 3" eke with PIR fill with a cutout for a fondant feeder when required. There's a plain frameless board next before a PIR insulated roof.
Outside there's a wrap.
If I leave the QE in place it will be a quick job I reckon. And as I have a mission/purpose, as you say, I'm not "fiddling" really
K

 

[hemo]

Qx's should have been removed many months ago, then no fiddling woul dbe needed . Like wise if fed well they should need no fiddling till late winter /early spring, by then if the weather is still mild forage will be available an dif anythng like this spring quite a heavy flow.

 

[Mint Bee]

I know this is boring, but if you have fed sufficient in the autumn then there is not need to fiddle now.
Plan to get the bees into a winter state before poor weather turns up. Assuming that probably end of September for you, but obviously need to monitor activity and weight as the bees don't work to the calendar
If you have Fed, then they don't need a top up (if at all) until they start serious board rearing which will be weather and location dependent. If you have OMFs then look at the debris pattern below to determine activity
IMO option it far easier and cleaner to feed from above the crown board if and when needed, and surround this with insulation. can easily be checked for consumption. this is the only time the holes in the crown board should be uncovered and in use

 

[Eyeman]

I’ve learnt a lot from overwintering wooden 5 frame nucs. Most were upto winter weight by end September then by October some are light, even some of the doubles. So fondant goes on over the CB, surrounded by insulation & an insulated roof. The heat from the colony causes the fondant to seep onto the frames. Easy to see when the tub needs topping up.

 

[ericbeaumont]

frameless metal QE

How do you achieve beespace between top bars and QX?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How do you achieve beespace between top bars and QX?

in my experience you don't. you just lay the queen excluder on the top bars, they peel off easily enough when needed.
Countless beekeepers use this practice, it's a non issue.

 

[Vanterrier]

in my experience you don't. you just lay the queen excluder on the top bars, they peel off easily enough when needed.
Countless beekeepers use this practice, it's a non issue.

Thankyou
K

 

[ericbeaumont]

Countless beekeepers use this practice, it's a non issue

Similar to the glueing down and squashing of bees acheived by those unframed green plastic QXs? They're a nightmare! Countless beekeepers may use them (they are cheap, after all) but I reckon they follow just behind the Porter bee escape as the most useless beekeeping tool.

 

[Antipodes]

.....

 

[Antipodes]

Similar to the glueing down and squashing of bees acheived by those unframed green plastic QXs? They're a nightmare! Countless beekeepers may use them (they are cheap, after all) but I reckon they follow just behind the Porter bee escape as the most useless beekeeping tool.

All the queen excluders I've ever seen here are frameless. There are about 670 000 beehives in Australia.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Similar to the glueing down and squashing of bees acheived by those unframed green plastic QXs? They're a nightmare! Countless beekeepers may use them (they are cheap, after all) but I reckon they follow just behind the Porter bee escape as the most useless beekeeping tool.

How on earth do you manage to squash bees with these QX? A knowledgeable beekeeper was telling a group of students how bad those green QX are so I stepped in and showed him how I manage to remove and replace them with hardly disturbing the bees. He had just never been shown how to use them.
Conversely I find framed QXs a pain because of the brace comb encouraged by the double bee space.
Each to their own.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How on earth do you manage to squash bees with these QX

That's me

so I stepped in and showed him how I manage to remove and replace them with hardly disturbing the bees.

Go on ........

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Similar to the glueing down and squashing of bees acheived by those unframed green plastic QXs? They're a nightmare! Countless beekeepers may use them (they are cheap, after all) but I reckon they follow just behind the Porter bee escape as the most useless beekeeping tool.

you obviously need to think a bit about improving your beekeeping if you cannot even use a smoker for one of the few reasons it's really needed. In this particular scenario, the only useless tool I can see is the beekeeper.
When I took over the association apiary, all they had were stamped galv. queen excluders (I must say I do not like the plastic ones, but that's a different matter) can't recall ever squishing bees when putting them in place. All it took was a few puffs of smoke and a bit of thinking