Reading the comb

[beeno]

Hi all,
I cannot remember, but someone on the forum suggested that I could not have 12 frames of capped brood and very little else. I have plotted it, but perhaps someone with A level maths can check it for me. My assumptions are: Queen laying for 12 days at maximum capacity (purportedly 2,000 eggs per day) producing 12 frames. On day 21 all of these frames would be capped brood, first one emerging and last one being capped. I did have some larvae on these frames too, which I assume has to do with queen going back to fill empty space from honey and pollen being used up in feeding the 'original' larvae. I never suggested that this would constitute 55,000 new bees emerging.
Thanks.

 

[For want of a better word]

Can not see any reason why 12 frames of capped brood would not bee a possibility, but all 55000 to all hatch at same time may not be a possibiliy as HM could shirly not wack that many eggs out in one day?

Must be a very strong and robust colony to have enough nurse bees to cope... lucky you!

 

[Hivemaker.]

If the queen was laying 2000 eggs per day...what size brood frames are you talking about being completely filled with sealed brood and nothing much else..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi all,
I cannot remember, but someone on the forum suggested that I could not have 12 frames of capped brood and very little else. I have plotted it, but perhaps someone with A level maths can check it for me. My assumptions are: Queen laying for 12 days at maximum capacity (purportedly 2,000 eggs per day) producing 12 frames. On day 21 all of these frames would be capped brood, first one emerging and last one being capped. I did have some larvae on these frames too, which I assume has to do with queen going back to fill empty space from honey and pollen being used up in feeding the 'original' larvae. I never suggested that this would constitute 55,000 new bees emerging.
Thanks.

But unless she'd swarmed on day 12 on day 21 she would have 2,000 fresh eggs, 2,000 day old eggs, 2,000 2 day old eggs, 2,000 newly hatched eggs, 2000 day old larvae, 2,000 2 day old larvae, 2,000 3 day old larvae.......................................................................
I'm afraid your calculations have a fatal flaw - if everything is O.K. the queen won't stop laying - unless she swarmed

 

[oliver90owner]

If you cannot remember your own threads from less than a fortnight ago, try this link

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25617

All you will get by regurgitating this is another drubbing. Remember my advice previously: when in a hole stop digging!

This one was even worse than telling one forum member that there should be capped brood less than three weeks after the queen cell was sealed.

Admin, I think this thread could be terminated as it will go nowhere.

 

[pargyle]

If you cannot remember your own threads from less than a fortnight ago, try this link

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25617

All you will get by regurgitating this is another drubbing. Remember my advice previously: when in a hole stop digging!

This one was even worse than telling one forum member that there should be capped brood less than three weeks after the queen cell was sealed.

Admin, I think this thread could be terminated as it will go nowhere.

It didn't go anywhere last time either ....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've never been anywhere - is it nice there?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

perhaps someone with A level maths can check it for me.

Maybe someone with a CSE in biology would be a better start

My assumptions are.

And as you know assumptions are the brother of all..................

 

[oliver90owner]

Maybe someone with a CSE in biology would be a better start

Now you are talking JBM. I remember CSE's - they were the ones where the top grade would only have been a grade C (at best?) for the later combined GCSE qualification. I think a lower grade at CSE would suffice. As you indicate, it is not rocket science by any means.

RAB

 

[Arfermo]

Maybe someone with a CSE in biology would be a better start

Now you are talking JBM. I remember CSE's - they were the ones where the top grade would only have been a grade C (at best?) for the later combined GCSE qualification. I think a lower grade at CSE would suffice. As you indicate, it is not rocket science by any means.

RAB

No CSEs in my day - Grammar School & School Cert or nothing. I got the "nothing" but a good steady career.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have an A level in zoology

Nothing about bees in it though

 

[drstitson]

In theory one could have 12 frames all of capped brood - eg a shook swarm onto drawn comb and with plentiful pollen supply but obviously once those twelve frames are full HM can't lay anywhere for another 9 days....

 

[oliver90owner]

obviously

Not quite . Unless those 12 frames were all laid yesterday (or within about four days - taking into account some cell-cleaning time).

BSc. here, btw.

 

[Hivemaker.]

In theory one could have 12 frames all of capped brood

What size frames...

 

[Excession]

If a queen lays 2000 eggs a day (that's a lot! I would expect 1000), and cells are capped from day 9 to 20, then the maximum capped brood at any time is 24000.
That's if you only consider the numbers in isolation and ignore brood nest size and number of bees etc.
I think there are 3000 cells per frame so that is 8 frames as a physical (and improbable) maximum.

If you extrapolate to figure out the size of the brood nest to sustain such a prolific queen, the brood nest alone would cover 14 frames with no stores or spare space...

Now if we had the inclination we could work out the exponential growth from an average winter cluster to a brood nest that size and work out how long it would take to get there, as you need the nurse bees to sustain the growth... But I don't think that's necesary as this already looks unrealistic to me.

I only got a B in maths

 

[BeeJayBee]

If a queen lays 2000 eggs a day (that's a lot! I would expect 1000), and cells are capped from day 9 to 20, then the maximum capped brood at any time is 24000.
That's if you only consider the numbers in isolation and ignore brood nest size and number of bees etc.

But you can't ignore the natural shape of the brood nest, which tapers towards the outside and offers space for stores. Once the space the workers allot to her is full she will either have to stop laying, or the colony will swarm.

Dave Cushman's diagrams of 'estimation of sealed brood' (national)http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/broodest.html. OP has "JDB PH", whatever they may be.

In theory one could have 12 frames all of capped brood

Nope! It's easier than that - take full frames from other colonies and put them all into one brood box.

I don't see the point of this thread, it's just another case of handbags at dawn.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I think there are 3000 cells per frame so that is 8 frames as a physical (and improbable) maximum.

Obviously depends on the frame, if standard national deep then 50,000 cells for eleven combs...this thread talks about twelve frames full of capped brood.

 

[oliver90owner]

Hivemaker,

It appears, from reading the OP, that the poster may not even realise that a frame consists of two sides! Oh dear!

RAB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hivemaker,

It appears, from reading the OP, that the poster may not even realise that a frame consists of two sides! Oh dear!

RAB

I've always counted a 'frame of brood' to mean brood on both side of that frame - otherwise it's a half a frame (and half a glass of beer is half empty not half full!)

I have an A level in zoology

Nothing about bees in it though

Well I've never seen bees in the Zoo - maybe that's why

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

On bad days brood and stores look a lot alike to me; that might be part of it.