Questions about managing honeybee diseases

[Worker bee]

You can use it, but it is easier if you buy a new queen to you hive and EFB is healed.

Show me a study where AFB has been healed with thymol. What I know, antibiots Terramycin and Tylosine are allowed use in USA, but not in Europe.

Do you actually know what means preventative?

Yes praventative means to not let something happen in this case not to let EFB or AFB multiply to a level where the bees can no longer withstand its effects. EFB takes hold on weak hives usually. Many bees can come into contact with it with no ill effect

 

[Worker bee]

News to me ... Thymol is an effective treatment for Nosema and is the active ingredient in some Varroa treatments but I'd like to see studies that show it is effective against Foul Broods ...

I think the study I saw showed that it kills the bacteria and spores and slows them down but its by no means a cure just something to help them general health. I remember it said number counts were significantly reduced compared with samples taken from untreated test group

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think the study I saw showed that it kills the bacteria and spores and slows them down but its by no means a cure just something to help them general health. I remember it said number counts were significantly reduced compared with samples taken from untreated test group

Can you supply the forum links to these 'studies'

 

[Worker bee]

Can you supply the forum links to these 'studies'

It's not something I bookmarked but if I have time later I'll try to find it

 

[Murox]

For an example mint and Thyme can be used as preventative treatments or treatments for varroa

Did you realise that Thymol can kill brood and bees at concentrations just twice that needed to deal with varroa.
There is some limited and 'dated' information on the Dave A Cushman site. 1999 seems to be the most recent of the references.
Quoting the Conclusions
Establishing the toxicity of these potentially useful botanicals is an important step to understanding dosage response, and the risks of administering these materials orally to bees for their protection against mites. Although a given compound may be efficacious against mites, if its toxicity to bees is high then there is great risk in using it.
Materials such as thymol may continue to be useful as fumigants and in topical application, but would have to be used with care as an oral medicament. Pinene, on the other hand, may be valuable in killing mites on and in the bodies of honeybees by its relatively low toxicity to bees when they ingest it.
Phase I of this research was unable to proceed with toxicity trials against mites and micro encapsulation because matching funds were still pending. In Phase II of this research, it is intended continue the work on the toxicity of the botanicals to mites and investigate the potential for micro encapsulated formulations being used as medicaments.

 

[Worker bee]

Did you realise that Thymol can kill brood and bees at concentrations just twice that needed to deal with varroa.
There is some limited and 'dated' information on the Dave A Cushman site. 1999 seems to be the most recent of the references.
Quoting the Conclusions
Establishing the toxicity of these potentially useful botanicals is an important step to understanding dosage response, and the risks of administering these materials orally to bees for their protection against mites. Although a given compound may be efficacious against mites, if its toxicity to bees is high then there is great risk in using it.
Materials such as thymol may continue to be useful as fumigants and in topical application, but would have to be used with care as an oral medicament. Pinene, on the other hand, may be valuable in killing mites on and in the bodies of honeybees by its relatively low toxicity to bees when they ingest it.
Phase I of this research was unable to proceed with toxicity trials against mites and micro encapsulation because matching funds were still pending. In Phase II of this research, it is intended continue the work on the toxicity of the botanicals to mites and investigate the potential for micro encapsulated formulations being used as medicaments.

Yes I know that 2-4 times so you need to weigh it out I think 12 grams per large colony is a maximum for varroa off hand not sure I'd have to look and its not wise to treat for varroa and give syrup treatment at the same time

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I see, that's really helpful.

Just to clarify, by regulations do you mean the ones which said people had to report varroa if they found it in their hives? Or regulations about other diseases?

I'd interpret the mention of regulations as relating to the introduction of restriction of use of oxalic acid relatively recently because a government agency allowed a commercial organisation to persuade them to prohibit use of commercially pure product in favour of a licenced product containing the commercially pure compound with added fairy dust.
Just my interpretation of course.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Good heavens your humble imaginations.

A disease is a failure of selection? Who heck has invented this?

Charles Darwin, in the late 19th century. Neither the scientific community nor any breeder of plant or beast has doubted it since.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Some want to maximize honey crop by treating diseases...... what is this talking?

Do you have a problem with that statement? If pests and diseases are not managed honey crop is generally dramatically reduced. Do you not agree?

What idea is to nurse sick domestic animals?

Ask those who nurse them by treating them. Many of us would prefer to keep healthy bees that don't need nursing.

And an amateur does not care about honey crop..... what is this talking..... is that the famous method called "catch and reliese".

I don't know what you mean by 'catch and release'

_Some_ amateurs will accept a smaller crop in exchange for the comfort of thinking they are being kinder to the bees in the long run. When I say 'the bees' I - and they - are not necessarily thinking of the colony, but of the local population.

 

[Finman]

Do you have a problem with that statement? If pests and diseases are not managed honey crop is generally dramatically reduced. Do you not agree?




Ask those who nurse them by treating them. Many of us would prefer to keep healthy bees that don't need nursing.



I don't know what you mean by 'catch and release'

_Some_ amateurs will accept a smaller crop in exchange for the comfort of thinking they are being kinder to the bees in the long run. When I say 'the bees' I - and they - are not necessarily thinking of the colony, but of the local population.

You really have invented a fairy tale. Everyone could invent their own story about beekeeping.

.

 

[Finman]

Ask those who nurse them by treating them. Many of us would prefer to keep healthy bees

That is too fat....

Would prefer... many of you really has a wisdom to avoid all 32 bee diseases

 

[Murox]

Charles Darwin, in the late 19th century. Neither the scientific community nor any breeder of plant or beast has doubted it since.

Thats not strictly true. Medically Darwin was a sickly person and in exploring his illnesses papers have been published which cast some shadows on areas he and Wallace seemed to have missed/ignored.

 

[BeeJam]

Well that escalated quickly!

 

[Beesnaturally]

Thats not strictly true. Medically Darwin was a sickly person and in exploring his illnesses papers have been published which cast some shadows on areas he and Wallace seemed to have missed/ignored.

OK, Wallace if you prefer. Or are you saying they both missed something? Of course they did. They missed everything that science has been filling in ever since.

But they found the principle; and Charles Darwin published first.

To reiterate: every biological scientist and every breeder of any life form has since understood the principle of natural - and human - selection to operate as the foundation of their understanding of how health is maintained in populations.

The principle goes back tens of thousands of years, to the origins of farming and the domestic breeds of plants and animals.

In an ideal world people would be saying 'How does that work then?'

 

[Murox]

The theoretical principle yes, but it has often been doubted.
"the ultimate dream he (Darwin) never fully addressed—the origin, as compared with the development, of species........"
......"the great challenges for contemporary biology and medicine—how a graded change occurring sometimes over millions years can lead to a rubicon, only after which is the new process susceptible to the forces of natural selection"................

 

[Finman]

The principle goes back tens of thousands of years, to the origins of farming and the domestic breeds of plants and animals.

But not tens of thousands. Evidences are under one ten.

What was the Darwin's boldest idea, it was that he must argue against bible's creation theory.

 

[Finman]

But what Darwin's theory does not explain is, that why honeybee has not been able to shake its typical diseases off via evolution.

If bee diseases have been in bees millions of years, how beelovers can breed the disease off in few years. Too much imagination and less knowledge, I would say.

 

[drex]

"Bugs" tend to reproduce much more quickly than insects etc, hence much more chance for mutations, to which the host has no immunity, so there will always be " disease" . Example is this Indian variant of Covid

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thats not strictly true. Medically Darwin was a sickly person and in exploring his illnesses papers have been published which cast some shadows on areas he and Wallace seemed to have missed/ignored.

I heard that a lot of his research was motivated by fears of congenital illnesses in his children as he had married his cousin and inbreeding was pretty prevalent in his family.

 

[Finman]

Do you know any disease, which Darwin's theory has healed?

But with the idea of Darwin's evolution you may wonder, how complex host - pest relations have evolved.