Queenless hive???

[Galaxy55]

Inspected a hive today that I suspected as having problems because of the lack of activity compared with a second hive at the same site. When I inspected the hive it had very little stores,no queen seen, no evidence of brood but there was some pollen that had been collected.
Decided to make a comparison with a second hive which was much more active. Second hive had what I would consider to be a perfect example of what should be happening at this time of year. Bees very busy bringing in pollen, queen seen, evidence of brood, four frames of stores, just looked right.
What I need to know is what to do with the first hive?

Have two other hives at the site which I didn't look at because I don't want to disturb them too early in the season.

Would it be possible to merge the hive which I suspect to be queenless with one of the other hive.

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes you can but you have to be confident you don’t have any underlying disease problems other than suspected Q-. It’s early and if confident you don’t have a queen and one of your other hives can spare a frame of eggs or some eggs, this will confirm Q- or Q+.. It is also possible you have a hive that is yet to get going and just behind the other hives so a bit more time will help before you decide what to do.

 

[enrico]

I agree with Tom, frame of eggs is the way to go. Take a frame with eggs in the centre area, scrape back to the foundation immediately under some of the eggs about 3 cm wide by 2 cm deep. The reason for this is that the queen cells will be made at this point and will face down rather than be bent. That will give you a couple of good queen cells if you are q-. If however you are Q + then you won't see any!
That's the beauty of having more than one hive!
E

 

[Tom Bick]

I agree enrico but in this case we dont need particularly good queen cells that is for later in the year. Any old queen cell will do to confirm Q- then providing no underlying disease combining will be the way forward.

 

[fiftyjon]

Determine whether it is queenless with a test frame first.

 

[Heather]

And if queenless in March??... is joining the only way to go?? So annoying if a decent size colony. Anybody any other tricks up their sleeve.

 

[Galaxy55]

Thanks for all the advice - there was a number of dead bees in the hive but I suspect that was only natural die off in the winter. Another beek has offered to look at the dead bees and test for any disease.

Just getting all the advice I can.

 

[itma]

I agree enrico but in this case we dont need particularly good queen cells that is for later in the year. Any old queen cell will do to confirm Q- then providing no underlying disease combining will be the way forward.

... and then think in terms of splitting, and the new Q, later.

 

[Tom Bick]

And if queenless in March??... is joining the only way to go?? So annoying if a decent size colony. Anybody any other tricks up their sleeve.

Good to have other options available heather and a shout out could come up with an unwanted queen from two queen right colonies been combined. Also it may be possible to get hold of overwintered queens.

 

[enrico]

I agree enrico but in this case we dont need particularly good queen cells that is for later in the year. Any old queen cell will do to confirm Q- then providing no underlying disease combining will be the way forward.

I can see where you are coming from Tom, few drones around for mating, so I would agree combining once the decision is made that you are q - would probably be best. Thanks. Warm weather was making me think we were in mid summer!!!
E

 

[Flatters]

I have said on another thread, but I think March really is too early for doing inspections.

Yes the temperatures are getting to 14 degrees but not for all the day. When you open up the hive it will lose a lot of heat. It takes energy to replace that

The bees will be just transitioning from winter so give them a chance.

A question to ask is "just what can I do at this time of year?" personally I think the answer is "Not a lot" There are no spare queens, the weather can turn cold again, you have no spare frames to do test frames.

My advice is leave the bees be until April or even May depending on the weather. The best care is probably feeding and minimal interference.

 

[Heather]

Don't forget Flatters, you are in Lancs... in South East we could be having swarms in late April, especially as now so mild. Crocus finishing, and bees have drained them dry!
It was 16d when I inspected last week. Took off emptied lower supers so giving more night warmth to the hives as I reduced to just brood.

 

[Flatters]

OP is from Manchester.

In other post I did mention I appreciate north is different to south.

Still March is early and this is beginners section.

Give them more time is my view.

 

[Easy Beesy]

Any point in merging? How old are bees in Q- hive then? Will influx of old (non-nurse) bees upset equilibrium of a Q right hive? Still too early in this part of world to be messing.

 

[Flatters]

Galaxy55 I think you may just have to watch and leave alone for a while. Forecast in Manchester not set to rise above 12 for next 5 days.

It is frustrating not being able to do anything. I have two colonies in my garden and three weeks ago on a warm day one of them was extremely busy and the other had one or two bees coming out of it over a long period of time. I thought the quiet one was dead. Last weekend both hives were just as busy as each other. The second hive just needed a bit more time to get going.

It is very early in the season and I reiterate; Other than feeding, what options are open to you? I think at the moment sit and watch is the only one.

 

[Galaxy55]

Thanks for all the advice. Easy Beesy I think you have made a couple of points I hadn't thought of you are right:
(How old are bees in Q- hive then? Will influx of old (non-nurse) bees upset equilibrium of a Q right hive? Still too early in this part of world to be messing.)

It is very early in the season)
The only reason that I inspected the hive was the because of the lack of activity and suspected that something was wrong. So frustrating though, not being able to help, I will try to leave them alone.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Any point in merging? How old are bees in Q- hive then? Will influx of old (non-nurse) bees upset equilibrium of a Q right hive?

I don't think so
They will add to the work force while they are able to

BUT as people have said. You need to make sure the colony is queen less which means a test frame or at least a few eggs.If the colony makes QCs then fine you know it is, but if it doesn't that doesn't prove Q+

At this time of year with a dwindling workforce maybe just leave alone.

 

[Easy Beesy]

May add to workforce but also more mouths to feed - also addition of bees causes stress which may lead to fighting, dysentery or too big space to heat at vulnerable time. May just have to sacrifice them for the greater good. Easier to tip all out and let them beg way in than formally merge.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Easier to tip all out and let them beg way in than formally merge.

Easier still is to leave well alone.

 

[Tom Bick]

Inspected a hive today that I suspected as having problems because of the lack of activity compared with a second hive at the same site. When I inspected the hive it had very little stores,no queen seen, no evidence of brood but there was some pollen that had been collected.
Decided to make a comparison with a second hive which was much more active. Second hive had what I would consider to be a perfect example of what should be happening at this time of year. Bees very busy bringing in pollen, queen seen, evidence of brood, four frames of stores, just looked right.
What I need to know is what to do with the first hive?

Have two other hives at the site which I didn't look at because I don't want to disturb them too early in the season.

Would it be possible to merge the hive which I suspect to be queenless with one of the other hive.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Just had a 2nd look at your post and perhaps they need feeding as you mention little stores.