Queen Frame Trap for Varroa

[alanf]

Which could if done at certain times possibly result in a reduction of around 40,000 new bees, and a rapidly diminishing older work force, which has then to revert to brood rearing as there are no young nurse bees left.

Yes, older work force would diminish but rather than foragers reverting to nurse duties is it not more likely that the nurse bees that are there delay the move on to foraging? It's not like a queenless colony where there is no brood for weeks at a time; the frames of brood are present and need nursing but are removed before emerging. There are results that show foragers can revert to duties in the hive but is there any research that suggests that would be routine if there were nurse bees available that could delay becoming foragers?

I have been trying to work out what queen trapping implies for the availability of foragers later. There's a leaflet written by Ian Homer www.mbbka.org.uk/PDFs/Sheet_17_Queen_Trapping.pdf . He advocates removing each trap frame after 18 days, just before they emerge. The suggestion is that the best time for trapping is between late May and Early July. That's assuming the foragers for your local flows have already emerged, which would be mid May. That's possibly true as claimed, but I'd like to see more evidence of how much foraging is affected and when before trying it on any scale.

Suppose we have three frames of brood laid over the 27 days removed which represents the entire production of bees. During that time there will be previously laid brood emerging for the first 20 days or so. They may be varroa damaged, which is why your are trapping, but these bees will be the colony nurse bees for the days after emergence. Then the last 7 days while trapping plus another 21 days until any new bees emerge. During this 28 days there may be a reduced demand for nurse duties, but those duties are needed for an extended period.

If you started by trapping the queen 1 June, that's the bees emerging, say 10-20th who you would expect to start foraging around the 2nd to 12th July according to http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm There will be no new bees emerging until 18th July which would not ordinarily become foragers until the 8th August. In other words, the forager shortage builds somewhere around 32 to 42 days after starting trapping and diminishes at 69 to 79 days after starting. It might be possible to predict the flows and demands on the colony precisely in some areas. I have no confidence that the flow is so predictable here or could cope with such a long hit to colony numbers. At the very least you would have to be prepared to feed if any shortage or date shift in forage availability occurred, and in recent years that's in more years than not. That's work monitoring the bees and forage levels beyond that described in the simple description of the technique. Throw in an exceptionally erratic summer like the one just past and without careful monitoring and supplementary feeding you could easily have a dip in colony health that is difficult to recover from.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Alan
read post sixteen by Dan, this is what i was replying to and quoted...there would be no other brood but the one trap frame for this to be effective, in which case there would be no young bees emerging for forty two days, and then a couple more weeks to become foragers,bearing in mind the older force will be very depleted by this time, and so many more of this first batch of new bees would need to remain in the hive to maintain and bring on the next generation, instead of out foraging.

And around here the most important time for powerful colonies and the maximum quantity of foragers is from the last week of june, until the end of the first week in september, and obviously in early spring if going to crops like osr.

 

[drstitson]

Further to my previous post here is a response from Giacomo - basically the answer is yes, the queen lays on both sides and uses the whole frame as normal.

Buona giornata Richard,

la risposta, è SI, depone su tutti e due i lati del telaino e in modo completo su tutto il telaino (frame).
Se parli italiano, puoi vedere il mio sito web www.apicoltoregiacomo.beepworld.it
Mi puoi dire in che città hai le api?
Grazie Giacomo

 

[drstitson]

it's all a question of timing surely.

better to limit queen laying to one frame then the traditional 3 frames over 3 weeks which uses resources of 3 x as many house bees.

 

[alanf]

Alan
read post sixteen by Dan, this is what i was replying to and quoted...there would be no other brood but the one trap frame for this to be effective, in which case there would be no young bees emerging for forty two days, and then a couple more weeks to become foragers,bearing in mind the older force will be very depleted by this time, and so many more of this first batch of new bees would need to remain in the hive to maintain and bring on the next generation, instead of out foraging.

And around here the most important time for powerful colonies and the maximum quantity of foragers is from the last week of june, until the end of the first week in september, and obviously in early spring if going to crops like osr.

Agree entirely. The point got a bit lost in the detail.

If you are going to try queen trapping, you lose 27 days of brood production. In peak season that is a cohort of bees that would normally be foraging 42 to 90 days after you start trapping. Plus the foraging power of cohorts either side will be depleted while they cover the hive duties of your missing cohort. If there is always a long gap in foraging locally that fits, fine but it's a big hit to a colony and that carries risks.