Queen cage - varroa management

[Plenty of honey]

Hi Richard enjoyed watching your video. When I saw Ralph’s videos last winter I felt strongly ‘we’re onto something’, shared it on here and bought the cages with the intention of trying last summer.

My last flow is the heather so more of a challenge re timing, but I reckoned if I caged the queen once she’d laid all the brood for the heather 1st week July (foragers flying mid august) there would still be time for her to make winter bees 3-4 weeks later. Might also make more honey from the last flow as no brood for the colony to rear once she is caged! Maybe you could even bring your timings slightly forward and benefit from this during your last flow??

I bottled it though, as my varrroa was very low in July. I did end up treating end of August to minimise risk to winter bees so wish I’d gone ahead. I will do this season, I felt I was a bit of a lone voice last year so watching you try it has given me confidence to go for it

I also bought the queen catcher device and I hadn’t thought of your good point about using the cages all year round in colonies as a way of caging the queen for other manipulations / inspections, which a hobbyist like me has to the time to do. Just wondered whether the bees would propolise or brace comb if in permanently - did you find this at all?

Pics here like yours from last winter but also showing the size vs a normal jzbz cage. Do like the idea of nurse bees being able to access, look after her and spread her pheromones around for overall colony harmony during the process. Will be interesting how all your queens perform next spring as I think some folk thought the caging might cause premature supersedure or impact her coming back into lay.

Pls keep us updated with varroa and queen performance results. Ralph told me when I made contact it’s his choice of treatment every year now

Hello Elaine, yes the bees may well build comb in the cage if they are short on space in the peak of a strong flow, However my experience was they built a heck of a lot less than I expected. The company actually supply a data sheet on how to cut up a small block of wood that fits perfectly in the cage. ok yes its another thing to have to sort out but guess what, you have low mite levels at the end of the day! to me thats worth all the work. You might say 4 euros for the cages is a bit steep, but they will last many years and you will not have to buy expensive Apivar for your hives.
Re your heather flow, well you will just have to experiment a little. I dont think its I deal to use the cage when a flow is in the offing but we can only try and share the results. best of luck.

 

[Skinfaxi]

Couldn't agree more with you Mike, it is a big effort but I feel it is justified. If I am making my last nucs then its pretty much at that time that I am looking for the queen. Judging by my previous years work on varroa control, I had to try something else. my Apivar did not seem to be working properly as mite levels were still far too high post treatment. Our dearth fits in nicely with the operation so ,as I stated in the video your almost working with the bees in the fact that their having a virtual brood break of their own at that time in this region. For me its too good an opportunity to miss, would rather be working my ass off with live bees, rather than working my ass off cleaning out dead losses the following spring, Then having nucs to sell instead of just using them for replacements yes its a huge amount of work!

I used amitraz once and in my area the mites seemed resistant. Very low drop levels and for many weeks. We have this problem in horticulture with red spider mites, vine weevil etc. Many are resistant to chemicals.
What to do now! Stronger chem!
Not sure if oxalic acid wont become non effective In the future.
But then again, how many chemicals do the bees bring in? Seems like the whole world is pesticide etc saturated.
But I believe you need to first sweep your own porch before you can tel some one else to sweep there porch.
Mr Palmer you need to do what is best for you to stay in business and do what you feel is right for your reality. And Mr Noel thank you for posting your video and trying. It did help to back up the practical from Dr Buchler talk at the honey show.

 

[Skinfaxi]

What about sticking a small metal colour disk to the queens back and use a metal detector to find the queen quicker. Or paint that can be detected by metal detector on the queen.

 

[holmbee]

Here’s how I caged those queens we were discussing. Pretty simple stuff, common sense approach but lots of work. However the results at this stage look really promising.

Hi Richard.

Just caught up with your video. Really great presentation with loads of information. Many thanks.

 

[Mabee]

Yes I’m planning on trying on a couple of colonies. Found it v easy to import the cages, the supplier was v efficient and delivery came within a week but min order is 6 and I bought the queen catcher too. Here’s a pic of them in 2 frames. Will ‘acclimatise’ in the hives beforehand so they pick up the hive odours.

How did this go? I'm thinking of trying this next year.

 

[elainemary]

How did this go? I'm thinking of trying this next year.

Like all things beekeeping some plans go astray! . I’ve read Richard Noel (commercial beekeeper in France) has had good success with it.

 

[abeille]

I'm not disputing the fact that they don't age as quickly, but the statement that they don't progress to foragers I find pretty far fetched, what do they do if there's no brood? sit around knitting or playing cribbage until the queen starts laying again?

No they clean and prepare the hive and cells.

 

[abeille]

Agreed.
A much better approach is the

I agree with Michael.
The foundress lays an infertile egg first - which becomes a male. Subsequently, she lays fertile eggs which become female. With SMR/VSH the foundress is repeatedly disturbed and eventually doesn't lay a male. This creates a clutch of females that have not mated so limits population growth.
I'm not in favour of the brood break because all it is doing is postponing the breeding stage - the varroa continues to feed on the fat bodies of adult bees, weakening them and transmitting viri.
The practice of brood destruction, whether worker or drone, reminds me of the old-fashioned practice of blood-letting. All it does is weaken the patient.

You understood about 1/5th of the process, omitted to read the remaining parts of the process and the 2 out of 3 options that do not require destroying brood.

 

[abeille]

so not really 'backed up' by any science then, and no 'significant difference' rather then your claim that they 'performed ahead' In fact, not a very scientific approach at all by the looks of it.

Suggest you do the reading. There is a significant difference, quite a substantial one at that!

 

[abeille]

Intend to try on a small number of colonies this July / August, so unlikely to be scientifically robust study. I'll be using regular treatments on the rest of my colonies. Like to try things and make sure there's a benefit before using more widely. A friend who saw the lectures is comb trapping on 2 colonies whilst I'll try Q caging. We intent to compare notes. Yes, I'll let you know how it goes pre winter and again in the Spring.

How did you get on?

 

[abeille]

Sigh...... whatever happened to simple beekeeping, splitting when needed then letting the bees get on with their intricate little lives in peace and quiet?

The old codgers amongst us messed that up by importing disease and mites.

 

[Murox]

The old codgers amongst us messed that up by importing disease and mites.

In contrast to the young, the elderly live by memory rather than by hope. As they have a lot of experience, they are sure about nothing and under-do everything. If they are small-minded it’s because they have been humbled by life.
According to Aristotle, the young are eager for superiority and easily feel slighted.
They have strong but changeable passions, are quick tempered and lacking in self-control.

 

[North End Bees]

How did you get on?

She didn't.
It seems like you've spent the morning reading through the entire 3 year old thread before ripping people's contributions to shreds.
You only had to read the very last post before yours to see that Elaine didn't get round it.

 

[pargyle]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and factual challenges are often helpful to others viewing threads - even years after they were started. There is a huge back catalogue in this forum and it's good to know that people are searching it. However, we won't tolerate personal insults - keep it to the facts please.

 

[abeille]

In contrast to the young, the elderly live by memory rather than by hope. As they have a lot of experience, they are sure about nothing and under-do everything. If they are small-minded it’s because they have been humbled by life.
According to Aristotle, the young are eager for superiority and easily feel slighted.
They have strong but changeable passions, are quick tempered and lacking in self-control.

Plastic use is also a boomer caused issue. Funnily enough I often see posts by this cohort suggesting they used glass in their day. Except it is their cohort who switched use to plastics. Just another example.

What does aristotle say about that?

I never really rated aristotle. One of his quotes was something along the lines of:
It is possible to fail in many ways...while to succeed is possible only in one way.

 Which is clearly and well proven wrong! Not someone I would align my values too. But each to their own in my opinion. Though clearly, quite a few on this thread align with Aristotle's incorrect theories and beleive their is only one way for success which is funnily enough usually theirs!

 

[abeille]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and factual challenges are often helpful to others viewing threads - even years after they were started. There is a huge back catalogue in this forum and it's good to know that people are searching it. However, we won't tolerate personal insults - keep it to the facts please.

I agree.
But when those factual challenges are clearly wrong. And demonstrates that they have neither read, researched, experienced or even understood the basics of the very thing they are arguing against, then that is not a desirable trait and one which should be called out.

Basically, what these people are saying is; I don't understand the poi t you are making, I haven't bothered to look into it, and yet I am happy to say it's wrong and my method is the only method to follow.


Typical for certain cohorts. Fortunately, the average age of beekeepers is falling and with that comes new ways of thinking. Clearly, not soon enough given the current state of honey bees in the uk!

 

[abeille]

She didn't.
It seems like you've spent the morning reading through the entire 3 year old thread before ripping people's contributions to shreds.
You only had to read the very last post before yours to see that Elaine didn't get round it.

Where did you contribute?
I only saw you misunderstanding the process, multiple times no less!

I did not ripe apart your or anyone else's "contribution" only (for example) your constant and persistent failure to understand the process which resulted in you ripping apart other people's actual knowlege based contributions.

Do you see how that works?

 

[abeille]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and factual challenges are often helpful to others viewing threads - even years after they were started. There is a huge back catalogue in this forum and it's good to know that people are searching it. However, we won't tolerate personal insults - keep it to the facts please.

I presume you will be correcting post 44 for example?

Or is that sort of insult allowed when it alignes with your own misunderstanding?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I presume you will be correcting post 44 for example?

Or is that sort of insult allowed when it alignes with your own misunderstanding?

Hey. Have you got out of the bed the wrong side today?
Give it a rest

 

[abeille]

Hey. Have you got out of the bed the wrong side today?
Give it a rest

Okay. Will work on the assumption it's okay to be offensive if your opinion is the same as mods. Typical of this forum. Happens repeatedly.