Plonk

[Erichalfbee]

Hundreds of wasps in my shed, chewing through my wooden boxes to get to the combs inside, that's a pest! A nuisance!

Ah......you didn't say that in your first post. I thought you found a group roosting

I had loads of wasps grouped together in the corner of my bee shed, I got the blow torch out and quickly blasted them.

I would probably have done the same.
Wasps bothering me while I'm torching the boxes get just that and as Karol says...........
Quick.

 

[kazmcc]

Ah......you didn't say that in your first post. I thought you found a group roosting



I would probably have done the same.
Wasps bothering me while I'm torching the boxes get just that and as Karol says...........
Quick.

Well now I'm on my own! Even Karol has abandoned me!

I don't care. I love my wasps ( in their right place of course )

 

[Ely]

After losing my final colony to wasps recently I have gone off them a little. I still find them fascinating and important insects though. Trouble was my hive was not strong enough to fend them off due to a bad season and me not being around to move them to a new location due to other commitments.

 

[peteinwilts]

I have lost many colonys this year.

The colonys have been weaker due to lack of forage, and the wasps have taken advantage.

Some may find this unpalatable, but I have an old LWB van that has been off the road for a couple of years (blowing exhaust and lack of enthusiasm in fixing it)
I have been using it to store spare supers and brood boxes with ply top and bottom.

However, thousands of wasps have found a way in and struggle to find their way out.
You cannot go within 20 yards of the van without being harassed, and need to wear a beesuit.

I have been in a few times, and they come pouring out. The van soon fills up again.
They are experts at finding gaps, so I would like to find a deterrent to make them uninterested in the first place, but safe to use around the bee kit (any suggestions?).

When the weather is cooler, I will destroy the old wax, and sterilise the rest.... until then, it will just remain a giant wasp trap.

 

[peteinwilts]

I look forward to the time some thieving git sneaks along one night and try's to steal the van!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Park it in your apiary?

 

[Thymallus]

I would like to find a deterrent to make them uninterested in the first place, but safe to use around the bee kit (any suggestions?).

Remove supers, boards top and bottom rachet strap together somewhere else.
Leave van door open and keys in ignition!

 

[Karol]

Well now I'm on my own! Even Karol has abandoned me!

I don't care. I love my wasps ( in their right place of course )

That's a tad unfair!

I have spent the last fifteen years educating people about the importance of wasps and the need to manage them sympathetically rather than eradicate them without conscience or care. The truth remains though that wasps kill and seriously injury countless thousands of people and judicious steps must be taken to manage them safely and sometimes that means eradicating a select few workers.

I'm pleased to say that public opinion about wasps is changing slowly. I remember when we exhibited for the first time at BBC Gardeners World at the NEC nearly everyone that came to our stand commented how wonderful it was that we were killing wasps as what use were they! Wind forward several years and whilst exhibiting at the show, a chap clocks the stand and instantly his jovial face cracks into a red raging mask of anger. He stomps over and then proceeds to berate me mercilessly about how irresponsible it was of me to kill wasps and that I should learn more about how important wasps are in nature. He then proceeds to waive a copy of Grow Your Own magazine in my face telling me that I'd do well to read the article in there on wasps. So I asks him who wrote the article and he replies some woman called Karol with a funny surname. I takes my exhibition badge and says "wot, this woman with a funny name"? But your a bloke he says. Yes says I but I still wrote the article. But you're killing wasps says he. No! I says, I'm not, I'm managing them. It then takes me a little while to explain the concept of a super organism and after that he's happy as to why my conscience remains clear.

 

[AdrianSmith]

<snip>
It should also be remembered that wasps are a super organism and therefore despatching workers when they are sweet feeding won't have any appreciable effect on wasp numbers especially because those workers are already starting to starve to death.
<snip>
Karol

I'll ignore the "wasps are dangerous comment" (we know I don't believe it), but I would like to ask a question about their sweet feeding behaviour.
When I see them sweet feeding, I wonder "where are the queens getting ready for hibernation?"
Would we know that bees exchange food if it weren't for observation hives?
Having worker wasps helping to fatten up the queens would be quite an intelligent thing for a super oragism to do, wouldn't it?

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I think you'll find, Karol, that Kaz is 100% behind you, being one of those whose view of wasps has changed 180 degrees in recent times. (She's a fan of yours, on the QT.)

I'm constantly delighted at her growing knowledge of the local insect population, and she makes me think about the importance of treating even inconvenient creatures with respect.

I think in some of these posts, there is a thread of careless harshness towards wasps (not in yourself, I hasten to add) which is at odds with our general attitude of delight in and wonder at honey bees. Kaz wes, I thought, reminding us if the need for care and respect, even in dealing with inconvenient wasps.

[I have to say that your scientific observations about the effct on wasps of insecticide, has made me think.]

Dusty

 

[Millet]

I have lost many colonys this year.

The colonys have been weaker due to lack of forage, and the wasps have taken advantage.

Some may find this unpalatable, but I have an old LWB van that has been off the road for a couple of years (blowing exhaust and lack of enthusiasm in fixing it)
I have been using it to store spare supers and brood boxes with ply top and bottom.

However, thousands of wasps have found a way in and struggle to find their way out.
You cannot go within 20 yards of the van without being harassed, and need to wear a beesuit.

I have been in a few times, and they come pouring out. The van soon fills up again.
They are experts at finding gaps, so I would like to find a deterrent to make them uninterested in the first place, but safe to use around the bee kit (any suggestions?).

When the weather is cooler, I will destroy the old wax, and sterilise the rest.... until then, it will just remain a giant wasp trap.

By the look of thing's you have invented the best was trap on the planet.. i salute you..

 

[Karol]

I think Kaz is a star and I admire her enthusiasm about wasps and other insects and how she helps infect others with her sense of obvious wonder.

I do think though that it's important not to lay a guilt trip on people when it comes to managing wasps (and I'm not saying that Kaz has done that intentionally). Culling is an essential tool in most conservation activities. The trick is knowing what to cull and when. So it's relatively easy to preserve wasp populations from one year to the next and at the same time it's relatively easy to manage nuisance wasps. As Erichalfbee says, he's had no wasps bother his hive entrances this year and that's what every beekeeper should expect if they properly implement integrated wasp management. Interestingly and as I keep saying, you can be effectively wasp free and yet kill very few wasps achieving it and that's a laudable paradigm that makes me feel good about what I do.

 

[Karol]

I'll ignore the "wasps are dangerous comment" (we know I don't believe it),

They say ignorance is bliss. It can also steal lives. So whilst you don't believe it, take it from a practising health care professional (with a strong toxicological background) that it's true.

but I would like to ask a question about their sweet feeding behaviour.
When I see them sweet feeding, I wonder "where are the queens getting ready for hibernation?"
Would we know that bees exchange food if it weren't for observation hives?
Having worker wasps helping to fatten up the queens would be quite an intelligent thing for a super oragism to do, wouldn't it?

Worker wasps do 'fatten' up queens just prior to mating through trophallaxis but once mated queen wasps go solo. They then go to ground very quickly and whilst not hibernating in the strictest sense (i.e. not in deep sleep) they become reclusive until the weather turns cold enough for them to properly hibernate. They spend quite a bit of time searching out suitable hibernating sites. In fact, the later that wasp nests mature (produce sexual progeny) the more queens survive into the following year.

 

[AdrianSmith]

Worker wasps do 'fatten' up queens just prior to mating through trophallaxis but once mated queen wasps go solo. They then go to ground very quickly and whilst not hibernating in the strictest sense (i.e. not in deep sleep) they become reclusive until the weather turns cold enough for them to properly hibernate. They spend quite a bit of time searching out suitable hibernating sites. In fact, the later than wasp nests mature (produce sexual progeny) the more queens survive into the following year.

That's interesting. Thank you.

They say ignorance is bliss. It can also steal lives. So whilst you don't believe it, take it from a practising health care professional (with a strong toxicological background) that it's true.

Can you quantify the risk then?
I admit to having switched off recently, but as far as I'm aware, the closest we've come to quantifying risks was when you raised some Hansard fgures.
They showed about 5 fatalities a year, over a five year period, from wasp stings.
I used to dive and that causes 20ish fatalities a year around our shores.
I ride a bike and that has 100+ fatalities a year.

I can well believe that the 5 fatalities a year figure was under reported, but if a scientific paper doesn't tell me how much to adjust that figure, then it isn't a basis for me to start classifying wasps as dangerous.

Case studies might highlight a risk, but they don't help us make sense of them.

As far as I'm aware, all the things that you tell us wasps stings can do to us can also be done to us by grass cuttings.
I'm not going to start thinking of mowing the lawn as a dangerous activity.

 

[Karol]

That's interesting. Thank you.



Can you quantify the risk then?
I admit to having switched off recently, but as far as I'm aware, the closest we've come to quantifying risks was when you raised some Hansard fgures.
They showed about 5 fatalities a year, over a five year period, from wasp stings.
I used to dive and that causes 20ish fatalities a year around our shores.
I ride a bike and that has 100+ fatalities a year.

I can well believe that the 5 fatalities a year figure was under reported, but if a scientific paper doesn't tell me how much to adjust that figure, then it isn't a basis for me to start classifying wasps as dangerous.

Case studies might highlight a risk, but they don't help us make sense of them.

As far as I'm aware, all the things that you tell us wasps stings can do to us can also be done to us by grass cuttings.
I'm not going to start thinking of mowing the lawn as a dangerous activity.

Kounis represents the greatest threat from wasp stings - well kinda. Actually it's the delayed sequelae from Kounis that are the secret killers. Kounis syndrome is common but under diagnosed and NHS data is porous because the cause of mortality/morbidity is recorded as the sequelae and not the sting.

Papers published by Kounis et al and Sinkewicz et al give some insight into the scale of the problem. Extrapolating their work suggests that there may be over a thousand fatalities a year as a consequence of wasp stings that go miss diagnosed as STEMIs several days if not a couple of weeks after the sting. That does not include other cardiovascular sequelae such as strokes and pulmonary embolisms.

The pathophysiology is relatively complex but basically stems from the fact that wasp venom has evolved to contain mast cell degranulating peptides. These have the effect of causing mast cells in the body to 'puke' up lots of immune system 'agents' in a bit of a flood. Normally these would work to protect the body from assault by foreign bodies but in Kounis syndrome these agents cause self harm. In coronary vessels they cause spasm and contraction which in some healthy individuals can manifest itself as sudden death. In older patients with coronary disease the vasospasm can cause rupture of atheromatous plaques. Similarly, some of the immune system agents that are released penetrate plaques and partially dissolve them weakening them so that they rupture later on. Rupture of such plaques leads to the formation of blood clots which as a process can take several days finally resulting in a heart attack, stroke or blood clot in the lungs, all of which are pretty fatal. Patients with fitted stents are at elevated risk of Kounis syndrome complications from wasp stings and that may be as high as 1 in 4 patients!

Importantly, treating allergic shock in patients with co-existing Kounis syndrome in the traditional way with adrenaline is likely to exacerbate Kounis and increases the risk of heart attack. Kounis syndrome is treated with intravenous antihistamines and high dose steroids.

Apart from Kounis there are lots of other complications from wasp stings. When my missus was working in an A&E department a couple of years back she encountered three patients who had been stung in the back of the throat by wasps where the patients needed intubating to keep their airways open. Extrapolate that up for the number of A&E departments around the country and it becomes a big figure- never mind all the other complications.

Wasps are dangerous insects and I don't say that lightly. At one major theme park they used to airlift on average between 6 - 8 anaphylaxis cases per annum. (Thankfully that has now dropped to one anaphylaxis case in every 25 years because of our involvement). Scale that up for all the theme parks, zoos and outdoor leisure facilities out there and it gives you some sense of the scale of the problem. Anaphylaxis is easy because the symptoms are relatively straight forward and acute so the fatality rate is less than 1% of hospital admissions. That's still a massive number of life saving interventions made each year. So, whilst the figures quoted are about 5 per annum for anaphylaxis (which is definitely understated as I've met at least a couple of dozen people who have had loved ones or friends die of wasp sting anaphylaxis) this doesn't reflect the size of the problem because it doesn't give an insight into the effort put into rescuing people.

 

[kazmcc]

That's a tad unfair!

I was kidding you. If it wasn't for "that woman with the funny name off the bee forum", I would still be running around my garden every year, screeching and waving my arms in the air

I knew I had turned a corner when earlier this year a wasp flew through my bedroom window. Not so long ago I would have screamed, levitated across the room and abandoned the house until someone removed it, and then made sure they had checked every room for me to make sure there were no more hiding. This time I did leap up, but it was to grab my camera She wouldn't stay still for me to get a good picture, sadly. This is a huge development for me. My next fear is spiders. I was brave enough to touch one the other day. Ok, I ran away after, but I did it

 

[kazmcc]

I think Kaz is a star and I admire her enthusiasm about wasps and other insects and how she helps infect others with her sense of obvious wonder.

I do think though that it's important not to lay a guilt trip on people when it comes to managing wasps (and I'm not saying that Kaz has done that intentionally). Culling is an essential tool in most conservation activities. The trick is knowing what to cull and when. So it's relatively easy to preserve wasp populations from one year to the next and at the same time it's relatively easy to manage nuisance wasps. As Erichalfbee says, he's had no wasps bother his hive entrances this year and that's what every beekeeper should expect if they properly implement integrated wasp management. Interestingly and as I keep saying, you can be effectively wasp free and yet kill very few wasps achieving it and that's a laudable paradigm that makes me feel good about what I do.

Aww shucks Thanks, but I'm just a big softy and hate killing anything. We had a huge wasp nest at school once, and I discovered it. It had to be removed, and I completely understood why, but I still sulked for days. It just doesn't sit right with me. I better get used to it though, if I'm going to seriously get into identification. I am working on it

And before anyone mentions squishing bees while putting boxes back together, I'm just going to put my fingers in my ears and say " La la la la la"

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I have lost many colonys this year.

The colonys have been weaker due to lack of forage, and the wasps have taken advantage.

Some may find this unpalatable, but I have an old LWB van that has been off the road for a couple of years (blowing exhaust and lack of enthusiasm in fixing it)
I have been using it to store spare supers and brood boxes with ply top and bottom.

However, thousands of wasps have found a way in and struggle to find their way out.
You cannot go within 20 yards of the van without being harassed, and need to wear a beesuit.

I have been in a few times, and they come pouring out. The van soon fills up again.
They are experts at finding gaps, so I would like to find a deterrent to make them uninterested in the first place, but safe to use around the bee kit (any suggestions?).

When the weather is cooler, I will destroy the old wax, and sterilise the rest.... until then, it will just remain a giant wasp trap.

Just need to fill it up with fruit juice and jam now

 

[kazmcc]

As much as I have grown to love our black and yellow friends, I'm afraid I would pass out if confronted with this lol

 

[user 6228]

Kounis represents the greatest threat from wasp stings - well kinda. Actually it's the delayed sequelae from Kounis that are the secret killers. Kounis syndrome is common but under diagnosed and NHS data is porous because the cause of mortality/morbidity is recorded as the sequelae and not the sting.

Papers published by Kounis et al and Sinkewicz et al give some insight into the scale of the problem. Extrapolating their work suggests that there may be over a thousand fatalities a year as a consequence of wasp stings that go miss diagnosed as STEMIs several days if not a couple of weeks after the sting. That does not include other cardiovascular sequelae such as strokes and pulmonary embolisms.

The pathophysiology is relatively complex but basically stems from the fact that wasp venom has evolved to contain mast cell degranulating peptides. These have the effect of causing mast cells in the body to 'puke' up lots of immune system 'agents' in a bit of a flood. Normally these would work to protect the body from assault by foreign bodies but in Kounis syndrome these agents cause self harm. In coronary vessels they cause spasm and contraction which in some healthy individuals can manifest itself as sudden death. In older patients with coronary disease the vasospasm can cause rupture of atheromatous plaques. Similarly, some of the immune system agents that are released penetrate plaques and partially dissolve them weakening them so that they rupture later on. Rupture of such plaques leads to the formation of blood clots which as a process can take several days finally resulting in a heart attack, stroke or blood clot in the lungs, all of which are pretty fatal. Patients with fitted stents are at elevated risk of Kounis syndrome complications from wasp stings and that may be as high as 1 in 4 patients!

Importantly, treating allergic shock in patients with co-existing Kounis syndrome in the traditional way with adrenaline is likely to exacerbate Kounis and increases the risk of heart attack. Kounis syndrome is treated with intravenous antihistamines and high dose steroids.

Apart from Kounis there are lots of other complications from wasp stings. When my missus was working in an A&E department a couple of years back she encountered three patients who had been stung in the back of the throat by wasps where the patients needed intubating to keep their airways open. Extrapolate that up for the number of A&E departments around the country and it becomes a big figure- never mind all the other complications.

Wasps are dangerous insects and I don't say that lightly. At one major theme park they used to airlift on average between 6 - 8 anaphylaxis cases per annum. (Thankfully that has now dropped to one anaphylaxis case in every 25 years because of our involvement). Scale that up for all the theme parks, zoos and outdoor leisure facilities out there and it gives you some sense of the scale of the problem. Anaphylaxis is easy because the symptoms are relatively straight forward and acute so the fatality rate is less than 1% of hospital admissions. That's still a massive number of life saving interventions made each year. So, whilst the figures quoted are about 5 per annum for anaphylaxis (which is definitely understated as I've met at least a couple of dozen people who have had loved ones or friends die of wasp sting anaphylaxis) this doesn't reflect the size of the problem because it doesn't give an insight into the effort put into rescuing people.

So i got off lightly when I had more than dozen wasp stings on a YHA walking holiday... Clear that rough ground they said , but didnt mention the wasp nest... almost passed out. Then spent the next few hours with my head between my knee. I felt very very yuk the next day as well.