Crossing races = aggression

[B+.]

Give it a rest Hoppy...as a mouthpiece for BIBBA you appear to be achieving the very opposite of their aims.....long may it continue.

The sad thing is that they prey on newbies who don't know any better.

 

[For want of a better word]

Usual clap trap from the Pro importer brigade!!!
About time they gave it a rest, peddling their misplaced ideas to beginners... shame on them... no chance of a balanced debate on this forum!!!..... did I mention Native bees????

Once again let us kick the player, not the ball!!!

 

[For want of a better word]

The sad thing is that they prey on newbies who don't know any better.

Usual clap trap peddled by those who are Pro importation.... did I already say that????

 

[B+.]

Once again let us kick the player, not the ball!!!

I have nothing against Amm. It's the antics of BIBBA and their acolytes I object to

Beefriendly is right. The extremism of you, and your BIBBA lot, push reasonable people in the opposite direction.

 

[B+.]

Usual clap trap peddled by those who are Pro importation.... did I already say that????

Ask yourselves why people import bees. The answer is quite simple: they're better.

 

[Beefriendly]

Ask yourselves why people import bees. The answer is quite simple: they're better.

Waste of effort B+ I'm afraid. Once BIBBA has brainwashed you there is no hope or escape. Hoppy is living proof of their hypocrisy....he keeps Italian bees but preaches no imports.
I find it rather sad.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

TooBee, Now you can draw your own conclusions......you asked a very pertinent question, which attracted a number of responses, all of them polite and constructive and together they provided a comprehensive answer. Then the AMM brigade arrive and being unable to add anything useful to the thread, they attempt to start a row. Somethings never change.

 

[Finman]

you've got a good sense of humour.

He is local Jesus. It is better that he does not move far from his own area, because then he is not local.

.

 

[Swarm]

Beefriendly, B+ and Quis Custodiet.

The same three names go through this same routine on a boring regularity. The OP was obviously intended to start another stupid round of squabbling. Go and inspect your bees (whatever bees they are) and give the forum a rest from your pompous bitching.
Name calling and ganging up on individuals is bullying, so go away and play nicely with your bees, there's good children.

 

[Beefriendly]

there's good children.

How come you never add anything constructive to the debate?
Apart from your obvious condescension towards others.
But whilst Hoppy et al peddle their misleading dogma there will be me and others who will act as counterweights to provide a fuller picture.
Sorry if you find it boring and repetitive. You could, of course, simply place us on your ignore list....then you will never have to read the "same old" ever again.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Beefriendly, B+ and Quis Custodiet.

The same three names go through this same routine on a boring regularity. The OP was obviously intended to start another stupid round of squabbling. Go and inspect your bees (whatever bees they are) and give the forum a rest from your pompous bitching.
Name calling and ganging up on individuals is bullying, so go away and play nicely with your bees, there's good children.

There are at least two people here on the forum, holding conversations with each other while being the same person. Often an alter ego appears as a thread is waning in order to keep it going.
I wouldn’t bother Steve. I love all bees and have a fair few different ones. I don’t care who keeps what and I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Seems hardly worth arguing about.

 

[Beefriendly]

There are at least two people here on the forum, holding conversations with each other while being the same person..

Name and shame please!

 

[Swarm]

There are at least two people here on the forum, holding conversations with each other while being the same person. Often an alter ego appears as a thread is waning in order to keep it going.
I wouldn’t bother Steve. I love all bees and have a fair few different ones. I don’t care who keeps what and I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Seems hardly worth arguing about.

I know, sad isn't it? There's one or two here, no wonder people don't bother any more.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

There are at least two people here on the forum, holding conversations with each other while being the same person. Often an alter ego appears as a thread is waning in order to keep it going.
I wouldn’t bother Steve. I love all bees and have a fair few different ones. I don’t care who keeps what and I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Seems hardly worth arguing about.

Be specific please, that is a serious allegation. You are I hope, not suggesting that Hoppy and I are one and the same person?

 

[B+.]

There are at least two people here on the forum, holding conversations with each other while being the same person. Often an alter ego appears as a thread is waning in order to keep it going.

For the record: I have only one account

 

[Swarm]

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41869

Here you go OP, the thread I mentioned. Knock yourself out.

 

[user 6228]

Hi

(I feel I could be starting an argument here, which is NOT my intention; it's just that I know that there are Queen / Bee Breeders on this forum that I think regularly cross different "races" of bees - you guys will know the answer, I know nothing )

I've heard the argument that crossing genetically different species causes 'hybrid vigor', i.e: two different dog breeds, same specie but genetically different enough to get 'vigorous' offspring (I remember my biology teacher teaching us this, which doesn't mean it's true).

HOWEVER within beekeeping circles I have heard that it also causes aggression!

While looking through an Irish website, which promotes the "native" (please don't define that word) black bee, I came across this claim:

"Cross breeding between races produces progeny which are renowned for their aggressiveness and can be very vicious in some cases"
found here under the heading "Our Native Honey Bees" point 9.
https://irishbeekeeping.ie/education/articles/grave-danger-bee-imports/

My QUESTION,
is this true...?

And please do not misunderstand me, I am not asking, if you allow a virgin Queen from a calm Queen to open mate with Drones from a different "race" (meaning genetically dis-similair within the same specie) which are in themselves from an aggressive Queen ... do you get aggressive bees, ... duh ... I would say so!

I am asking; ASSUMING that the Drones are from a CALM Queen, albeit of a different "race", will the "progeny" be more likely aggressive?
east a little
Could it just be an 'old wives tail', a rumor, or misconception, caused by Queens breeding with different races which are also aggressive, but the aggressive trait being blamed on their different "race"? Or could the author be overly promoting their black bees against the immigrants I mean non black bees?

I think a lot of conventional breeding assumptions about bees could be at least a little off, because if the extreme levels of gene recombination and polyandry.
https://www.uu.se/en/news-media/news/article/?id=4594&typ=artikel
Wallberg, A., Glémin, S., & Webster, M. T. (2015). Extreme Recombination Frequencies Shape Genome Variation and Evolution in the Honeybee, Apis mellifera. PLoS Genetics, 11(4), 1–27. http://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1005189

They not only use multiple decks of genetic cards they shuffle them a lot harder

 

[For want of a better word]

Ask yourselves why people import bees. The answer is quite simple: they're better.

No it is because they are available in great numbers at a time of the year when those who bought them last season need to replace as they lost them over the winter.
Parallels with the tropical marine fish trade..... unsustainable!

 

[Anduril]

No it is because they are available in great numbers at a time of the year when those who bought them last season need to replace as they lost them over the winter.
Parallels with the tropical marine fish trade..... unsustainable!

Oh dear, what nonsense, a while back I bought an Argentine Buckfast queen in a nuc from a local supplier. The queen lasted 4 years. Maybe you need a beekeeping refresher course. If Italian queens can survive in Finland, what does that say?

 

[Erichalfbee]

For the record: I have only one account

I know Paul. You were not included in my musings
And for the record the same goes for me.