Hunting wasps

[Obee1]

Thanks for the informative post Karol. I have quite a few wasps in the area that appear as soon as any hive is opened and they land on a frame as soon as I remove it from the hive.
So my question is what should I do with theses wasps. I have been squishing them on the frame and discarding any left over bits on the floor . Surely if they are not killed they will go recruit more wasps.
Btw I do have a waspbane in the apiary which has caught about 30 wasps over the season.

 

[Karol]

Wasps pin point navigate so if they find the frames outside of the hive then it shouldn't be a problem if the hive has a tunnel/under-floor entrance and is protected with a high efficiency trap (located near the entrance to the hive). Any wasps that are recruited won't have fed (assuming that the frame hasn't been out for longer than circa 18 minutes) and should be easily batted back at the entrance to the hive plus caught in the trap (which they will select as the path of least resistance). If the recruited wasps have fed on the frame then they will navigate back to where they found the frame. If you move the frame they will still come back to the original location where they found the frame.

So, here's a useful little technique. Make sure that you handle the frames in the same location (literally to the same few millimetres) each time so that any wasps finding the frames (and recruited to them) keep coming back to the same exact location. Once you finish with the last frame immediately place a 'primed' trap in that location and it will vacuum up the wasps for you. (Please note that primed is not the same as baited - it's a technique which introduces a small amount of bait liquor into the top part to enhance draw). If you use a cold trap then there is a risk that the trap won't be detected by the wasps and they will mobilise elsewhere.

If you squish wasps on the frame and then replace the frame into the hive you'll be adding an alarm pheromone signature to your hive. Not a problem if you haven't got swarm feeding wasps but definitely a problem if you do. The reason being that with swarm feeding wasps you can use interruption (dynamic) trapping techniques such as moving the hive less than 3 feet and placing a trap in its stead or closing the hive for a few hours with the trap at the entrance (and as described above with the frames). With alarm pheromone the wasps navigate by scent instead of mental map which negates interruption trapping and makes it much harder to protect the hive.

That's one of the massive advantages of having a high efficiency trap - you can use it for dynamic trapping as well as static trapping.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have had a wasp bane trap hung on a fence the bait i used is some Fosters larger

Yes....my choice too....It's about the only thing I would do with it apart from pour it down the sink

 

[beebopper]

I have had a wasp bane trap hung on a fence for about 2wks and there is a good amount of wasps in it already, the bait i used is some Fosters larger a bit of strawberry jam and some brewers yeast.

So do you find this as effective as with the bespoke refill you can buy for waspbane traps?

 

[Millet]

Yes....my choice too....It's about the only thing I would do with it apart from pour it down the sink

To be honest i do not mind the odd chilled one, but then again i am not a fan of expensive wine like you may be.
Here is one for you to try over the weekend.

http://www.wine-searcher.com/merchant/62163?wine_id_F=1794202&wine_name_id_F=42370

 

[Millet]

So do you find this as effective as with the bespoke refill you can buy for waspbane traps?

Exactly the same, just don't forget to tip the primed trap up now and again and slosh some of the mixture around in the trapping tube above, that seems to get interest almost immediately around the trap.

 

[Millet]

Wasps pin point navigate so if they find the frames outside of the hive then it shouldn't be a problem if the hive has a tunnel/under-floor entrance and is protected with a high efficiency trap (located near the entrance to the hive). Any wasps that are recruited won't have fed (assuming that the frame hasn't been out for longer than circa 18 minutes) and should be easily batted back at the entrance to the hive plus caught in the trap (which they will select as the path of least resistance). If the recruited wasps have fed on the frame then they will navigate back to where they found the frame. If you move the frame they will still come back to the original location where they found the frame.

So, here's a useful little technique. Make sure that you handle the frames in the same location (literally to the same few millimetres) each time so that any wasps finding the frames (and recruited to them) keep coming back to the same exact location. Once you finish with the last frame immediately place a 'primed' trap in that location and it will vacuum up the wasps for you. (Please note that primed is not the same as baited - it's a technique which introduces a small amount of bait liquor into the top part to enhance draw). If you use a cold trap then there is a risk that the trap won't be detected by the wasps and they will mobilise elsewhere.

If you squish wasps on the frame and then replace the frame into the hive you'll be adding an alarm pheromone signature to your hive. Not a problem if you haven't got swarm feeding wasps but definitely a problem if you do. The reason being that with swarm feeding wasps you can use interruption (dynamic) trapping techniques such as moving the hive less than 3 feet and placing a trap in its stead or closing the hive for a few hours with the trap at the entrance (and as described above with the frames). With alarm pheromone the wasps navigate by scent instead of mental map which negates interruption trapping and makes it much harder to protect the hive.

That's one of the massive advantages of having a high efficiency trap - you can use it for dynamic trapping as well as static trapping.

I must have different wasps Karol, the empty experiment hive i mentioned earlier with no bees and uncapped honey + 100 wasps after 2 hrs raiding, was moved to the bonfire spot in the garden, i placed a trap on the original hive stand and went of to cut the grass as the parrot was out in the sun and washing on the line so the fire could not be lit, a couple of hours later they was not a single wasp in the trap but hundreds in the hive and also bees which was around 30 yard's away , they must have followed me..

 

[beebopper]

Exactly the same, just don't forget to tip the primed trap up now and again and slosh some of the mixture around in the trapping tube above, that seems to get interest almost immediately around the trap.

Thanks - much cheaper!!

 

[Karol]

I must have different wasps Karol, the empty experiment hive i mentioned earlier with no bees and uncapped honey + 100 wasps after 2 hrs raiding, was moved to the bonfire spot in the garden, i placed a trap on the original hive stand and went of to cut the grass as the parrot was out in the sun and washing on the line so the fire could not be lit, a couple of hours later they was not a single wasp in the trap but hundreds in the hive and also bees which was around 30 yard's away , they must have followed me..

Difficult to comment without observing what happened. It would however be consistent with following alarm pheromone instead of navigating by mental map. Will send you pm so you can see what I'm talking about albeit it won't be with a hive example.

Also can't comment with regards to the bait system you're using. Fermentation resulting in the production of acetic acid kills the system just as any low pH bait liquid will.

 

[Erichalfbee]

To be honest i do not mind the odd chilled one, but then again i am not a fan of expensive wine like you may be.
Here is one for you to try over the weekend.

http://www.wine-searcher.com/merchant/62163?wine_id_F=1794202&wine_name_id_F=42370

I'm more of a claret than a burgundy girl but those days are long gone. Family has grown up so I have to as well. A lovely craft ale takes some beating.

 

[beebopper]

Difficult to comment without observing what happened. It would however be consistent with following alarm pheromone instead of navigating by mental map. Will send you pm so you can see what I'm talking about albeit it won't be with a hive example.

Also can't comment with regards to the bait system you're using. Fermentation resulting in the production of acetic acid kills the system just as any low pH bait liquid will.

Why can't he comment about the bait - he has tried it and it works with similar efficacy as the other stuff. How can you say his observation is not valid? It is his observation!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Why can't he comment about the bait - he has tried it and it works with similar efficacy as the other stuff. How can you say his observation is not valid? It is his observation!

Read Karols post again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's just the chemistry teacher up to his old tricks - Karol baiting.

 

[Millet]

I'm more of a claret than a burgundy girl but those days are long gone. Family has grown up so I have to as well. A lovely craft ale takes some beating.

 

[Millet]

Difficult to comment without observing what happened. It would however be consistent with following alarm pheromone instead of navigating by mental map. Will send you pm so you can see what I'm talking about albeit it won't be with a hive example.

Also can't comment with regards to the bait system you're using. Fermentation resulting in the production of acetic acid kills the system just as any low pH bait liquid will.

I am by far no scientist or graduate of any kind, however i am a level headed common sense kind of fellow, the method i am using kills the jaspers good style, i may be lacking brain power with you professors but i will give you a run for your money when common sense kicks in.

Edited to add.

Karol i value your comments and researcher d advice greatly , so keep helping us.

 

[Karol]

Always!

Common sense is the rarest of gifts. The way I look at it is that every day is a learning day no matter who or what does the teaching. I don't think there's a day goes by that I don't learn something new. So if you have anything to share Millet it'll be most welcome.

 

[GaryB]

Not really with it at all are you? and I saw nothing dramatic at all in the post.
Karol's posts are always informative and helpful and I think most forum members appreciate his learned advice.
You carry on foolishly squishing wasps all over your hives - I'd prefer to follow the advice of someone who has a wealth of knowledge about wasp behaviour as he has studied the subject for years.

Personally, I don't see the purpose of your rather derisive post.

 

[viridens]

Blimey! I didn't know that wasps could wipe out a hive in a couple of hours for meat! Has this happened to folks here?
I see there is a National Bee Unit information sheet 'Honey Bee Colonies and Wasps':
www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1082

Dragonflies are also predators and snatch bees. I've watched them hunting in my garden. I've also seen them perched while munching workers, and I would guess that some queens could be lost this way?

 

[Millet]

Always!

Common sense is the rarest of gifts. The way I look at it is that every day is a learning day no matter who or what does the teaching. I don't think there's a day goes by that I don't learn something new. So if you have anything to share Millet it'll be most welcome.

I do not know if you already know this (you most probably will ) but wasps do not just use insects for protein, they also take rabbit and pigeon meat, and probably splattered road kill.
I have kept ferrets for rabbit control purposes for the past 30+ years and in the height of summer large numbers of wasps are in and out of the ferret cages all day, with rather a mouth full of rabbit meat or pigeon meat, obviously to take back to the nest to feed the growing colony.
So maybe if any one is worried about wasps taking honey bees, it might help if they feed them some of the above.

 

[Karol]

Thank you Millet.

Carrion feeding is interesting. It's a cheap source of protein but wasps still show a preference for insect prey. I suspect that that's because insect skeletons are made of sugar and given that adult wasps are fed by their grubs through trophallaxis (digested sugars regurgitated by the grubs) it makes sense. Animal flesh (muscle) will contain sugars as well in the form of glycogen but the levels are much lower (2% by weight).

My gut feeling is that it wouldn't be wise to put carrion anywhere near a hive because it risks attracting large numbers of wasps that may then latch onto the hive when they get short of carbs from a high carrion diet. Much better to leave hunting wasps dispersed over the widest possible area hunting for insects which invariably will be pests. The wisdom of this is that hives find it incredibly easy to bat away solitary hunting wasps.