Pin Test (Update)

[B+.]

I have just learned that the pin-killed brood test has been updated.

It seems that the number of opened cells correlates better with SMR (Suppressed Mite Reproduction) and VSH (Varroa Sensitive Hygiene) than the number of cells completely emptied. So, this will be used from 2019 onward in BeeBreed

 

[Curly green fingers]

I have just learned that the pin-killed brood test has been updated.

It seems that the number of opened cells correlates better with SMR (Suppressed Mite Reproduction) and VSH (Varroa Sensitive Hygiene) than the number of cells completely emptied. So, this will be used from 2019 onward in BeeBreed

That's very interesting , can you elaborate on the pin killed brood test as I understand nurse bee's /workers chew holes in the capped cell to lower the temperature in the cell which kills the varroa.
In your opinion would you say that its ferimones that the larvae releases telling the bee's there in trouble?

 

[B+.]

That's very interesting , can you elaborate on the pin killed brood test as I understand nurse bee's /workers chew holes in the capped cell to lower the temperature in the cell which kills the varroa.
In your opinion would you say that its ferimones that the larvae releases telling the bee's there in trouble?

You can download the Coloss article as a .pdf from here (https://www.researchgate.net/public...earing_and_selection_of_Apis_mellifera_queens ). Take a look at 3.3.4.3 for the basic method.
There are several theories on what signal the worker is responding to when it uncaps the cell. I prefer not to speculate. I just record what I see and leave it to the specialists to interpret the results.

 

[Curly green fingers]

You can download the Coloss article as a .pdf from here (https://www.researchgate.net/public...earing_and_selection_of_Apis_mellifera_queens ). Take a look at 3.3.4.3 for the basic method.
There are several theories on what signal the worker is responding to when it uncaps the cell. I prefer not to speculate. I just record what I see and leave it to the specialists to interpret the results.

Fair enough , I would still like to know what you think though , your theories as a beekeeper? Pm me
If you like.
Thanks again for the link etc...
Mark..

 

[jeff33]

Doesn't the larvae gets killed during the pin test? I thought you had to go all the way down to the bottom of the cell thus killing the larvae (unless you miss). VHS bees should open, empty and clean these cells.

 

[Beefriendly]

I have just learned that the pin-killed brood test has been updated.

Seriously good news.
I anticipate 1000's of beekeepers freshly sharpening their pins tonight in anticipation of the impending pin killed brood season.
Hope it eventually leads to commercially available VSH queens.....one day

 

[For want of a better word]

Seriously good news.
I anticipate 1000's of beekeepers freshly sharpening their pins tonight in anticipation of the impending pin killed brood season.
Hope it eventually leads to commercially available VSH queens.....one day

Dammit... and we invested in a bottle of liquid nitrogen!

 

[B+.]

Seriously good news.
I anticipate 1000's of beekeepers freshly sharpening their pins tonight in anticipation of the impending pin killed brood season.
Hope it eventually leads to commercially available VSH queens.....one day

...and people wonder why those who know the answer to questions don't post. It's because of sarcastic know-it-alls like you!

 

[Beefriendly]

...and people wonder why those who know the answer to questions don't post. It's because of sarcastic know-it-alls like you!

One wonders why someone continually boasts about his VSH queens and their honey production...
Yet those queens aren't available to "ordinary" beekeepers.
Go figure why you get sarcastic responses.

 

[B+.]

One wonders why someone continually boasts about his VSH queens and their honey production...
Yet those queens aren't available to "ordinary" beekeepers.
Go figure why you get sarcastic responses.

You have yet to contribute ANYTHING except derision and criticism. You have been banned but allowed back. You continue your old ways with no sign of changing. Why?
As for my queens, there are people on here who've seen them. I have nothing to prove to you.
Your "ordinary beekeepers" clause is childish. It's like saying, I'm too lazy to put the work into doing it myself. Can I have some of yours? Oh, and by the way, I want the benefit of all the work you've put in over the years for free. That about sums you up!

 

[Stiffy]

Seriously good news.
I anticipate 1000's of beekeepers freshly sharpening their pins tonight in anticipation of the impending pin killed brood season.
Hope it eventually leads to commercially available VSH queens.....one day

They are available, have some on order for later this year. Looking forward to seeing if they perform as well as they are reputed to.
S

 

[B+.]

Dammit... and we invested in a bottle of liquid nitrogen!

LN2 still works but you need to count after 24 hrs as per Coloss. Not the 48 hrs that LASI do.

That's for hygiene BTW. Not VSH

 

[Curly green fingers]

They are available, have some on order for later this year. Looking forward to seeing if they perform as well as they are reputed to.
S

From where? And are they AMC or ???

 

[Curly green fingers]

Doesn't the larvae gets killed during the pin test? I thought you had to go all the way down to the bottom of the cell thus killing the larvae (unless you miss). VHS bees should open, empty and clean these cells.

Have a read of the link Jeff that b+ has put up if you haven't already.

 

[B+.]

Doesn't the larvae gets killed during the pin test? I thought you had to go all the way down to the bottom of the cell thus killing the larvae (unless you miss). VHS bees should open, empty and clean these cells.

Yes...but its a purple-eyed pupa. Not a larva. The age of the brood is important.
With a larva, you can miss it altogether because its small and curled in a "c" shape. With a pupa, it lies down the length of the cell. By the time it has purple eyes, the exoskeleton is hard and less easy of the workers to remove. If it is too easy, the number of cells completely emptied will be higher...and you will be misled into thinking they are more hygienic than they really are. This is hygienic behaviour. VSH is detecting and removing reproducing varroa mites.
Only queens that score highly in the hygiene test are worth testing for VSH (it is quite labour intensive so you only test the queens that are worth testing)

 

[Beefriendly]

I want the benefit of all the work you've put in over the years for free. That about sums you up!

Rubbish.... I am quite happy to pay.
Now on an open forum will you sell me a couple of your queen's or not.
Or are you still a carrot dangler

 

[Stiffy]

From where? And are they AMC or ???

No, not AMC. They are Buckfast, the strain I keep
S

 

[TooBee...]

You can download the Coloss article as a .pdf from here (https://www.researchgate.net/public...earing_and_selection_of_Apis_mellifera_queens ). Take a look at 3.3.4.3 for the basic method.
...

Thanks, your link has answered quite a few questions I was thinking about, and one obvious one; what type of pin!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hemobllo-S...+pin&qid=1551999752&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmrnull

 

[jeff33]

Thanks B+, indeed I got confused with hygienic behaviour.

 

[For want of a better word]

LN2 still works but you need to count after 24 hrs as per Coloss. Not the 48 hrs that LASI do.

That's for hygiene BTW. Not VSH

Testing for hygienic bees... the beekeeper and breeder in the know is using and selecting Cornish Amm has had some successes with VSH.***

Must admit I am wary of carrying cylinders of Liquid N2 and the pin prick method looks to be more easily carried out

[***Personal correspondence that I have been asked not to share as his IP.]

BUT it does go to prove that "ordinary" beekeepers who do not have a claimed string of high qualifications can do good field work.... and others can get involved with " Citizen |Science " .... and use good quality bees bred in the UK

Yeghes da