Formic pro effectiveness in large colonies

[elainemary]

I applied 2 Formic pro pads as per manufacturer instructions to 2 colonies for 7 days on 15 August - a large double brood colony and a single brood colony. I did a sugar shake on the one with the largest drops before I started the treatment and it showed 3% infestation. When I took the pads out after 7 days they were completely dried up with no scent of formic acid in the larger colony.

The largest colony is still dropping large numbers of mites (c 30 a day). Even if these were dead mites in cells that were just being capped when the pads were added, wouldn’t they have dropped already as the young bee would have emerged by 27 August? The smaller colony next door, the mites have significantly reduced so now dropping just 2 or 3 a day.

Had a good look through the larger one. Saw 3 mites in open worker brood cells. I don’t think they are robbing another colony as income is not more than others. Think I should use another form of treatment asap!

Sharing this as there may be experience of formic pro not being as effective on large colonies and as a watch out to others on the forum to keep monitoring drops. Comments / other experience welcome

Ps this is the first time I’ve used formic pro. I used Maqs on a couple of colonies as a beginner which seemed far stronger and caused a lot of dead bees and the queens went off lay. There were no dead bees during the treatment with formic pro and the queens did not go off lay

 

[Erichalfbee]

You could always upgrade to top vaping with Oxalic

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

this is the first time I’ve used formic pro. I used Maqs on a couple of colonies as a beginner which seemed far stronger and caused a lot of dead bees and the queens went off lay. There were no dead bees during the treatment with formic pro

it's the same stuff, different label

 

[Erichalfbee]

it's the same stuff, different label

Is the difference only that you can use MAQS with supers but not Formic Pro?

 

[elainemary]

Yes that’s what I thought. However I haven’t had the chance to look into the detail and whether the amount of formic acid is different to Maqs or whether the formulation has changed since I used Maqs as a beginner 7 seasons ago. I noticed how much stronger (in pungent smell) Maqs were vs formic pro. I did use a mask this time!

I suspect this apiary has some free living colonies / natural beekeepers nearby, so I think on this occasion strips in for 6-8 weeks is the way to go. That’s one disadvantage of a short treatment, if a colony is robbing another they can get reinfested quite quickly…

 

[Erichalfbee]

That’s one disadvantage of a short treatment, if a colony is robbing another they can get reinfested quite quickly…

That's why I always do an accelerated drop a month after the autumn treatment is finished

 

[elainemary]

That's why I always do an accelerated drop a month after the autumn treatment is finished

Dani at what level of drop, using your accelerated method, do you then decide to treat further ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

20

 

[elainemary]

20

Can you explain why pls, as sounds quite low, if this is all the phoretic bees?

 

[Erichalfbee]

It means there are another 80 in the brood and the bees are still producing brood.
I'd rather hit them again. I don't bother with a "winter" vape.

 

[elainemary]

It means there are another 80 in the brood and the bees are still producing brood.
I'd rather hit them again. I don't bother with a "winter" vape.

Thanks makes sense. I read once that David Evans likes to get total varroa down to below 50 in winter. Even at that small number means they need treating again by the following summer.
Have also been reading up a bit more on formic pro. They have changed the formulation by changing the outer wrapping vs Maqs original, so the formic acid is released more slowly, so less impact on the queen and bees. I’ve also read now the effectiveness is only 80%. I’ve dropped a note to the manufacturer explaining what I’ve found re the continuing drops in my large hive. Be interesting to see what they say.