Oxalic Acid vaping regimes

[MrMouse]

Hi folks,
I’m going to use vaporised OA as part of my treatments this year.

What regimes do you all follow? I know that some do a single dose, others do a few spaced apart.

I’d be grateful to hear about what you all do.

Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

this year? which is almost at the end, or do you mean next season

 

[MrMouse]

this year? which is almost at the end, or do you mean next season

I mean over the winter - as an adjunct to the apivar strips removed the other week.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

over the winter, one dose is sufficient - done a little while after a cold snap, anytime after now really

 

[Sutty]

You're aiming for a treatment when they are broodless so that the mites can't hide in sealed cells.
So a treatment whenever you think that will be is what you want, though multiple at likely points over winter won't do any harm. Personally I find it hard to judge when they are broodless.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In the end, this midwinter OA routine started when the only delivery method was trickling, and as multiple trickling is harmful to the bees (especially the queen) people had to find a broodless period, usually midwinter, for one good hit, then the usual suspects rolled up and invented this winter solstice nonsense.
Basically, if you do your autumn varroa eradication correctly you don't need to do a midwinter one although it can be useful as a mopup, especially if you are in an area populated with leavitalone beehavers so you risk re-infestation before the next season.
I have apiaries which seldom (never in one case) get a winter vape and one that I ensure gets one because of neighbouring hives, although I may be in the clear as I believe those apiaries no longer exist. It's more a case of if the weather is OK and I have time on my hands than a matter of necessity.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Critical to treat 3 times at 5-day intervals; that is, days 1, 6 and 11. The schedule was worked out by Peter Little many years ago.

This beekeeper treated at 7-day intervals, which failed to deal with varroa.
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/some-help-on-what-has-happened-here.57659/

 

[polymath]

Hi folks,
I’m going to use vaporised OA as part of my treatments this year.

What regimes do you all follow? I know that some do a single dose, others do a few spaced apart.

I’d be grateful to hear about what you all do.

Thanks

Generally mid december has been identified as when there is least brood - LASI research. Two treatments 5 - 10 day apart for maximum efficacy, note VMD only allows for single treatment if you want to follow. Your choice. Dosage again using LASI research is standard if i rememder 4.5gms per hive

 

[Colinkemp]

You're aiming for a treatment when they are broodless so that the mites can't hide in sealed cells.
So a treatment whenever you think that will be is what you want, though multiple at likely points over winter won't do any harm. Personally I find it hard to judge when they are broodless.

Would a lack of biscuit coloured debris on the Varroa tray indicate low or nil brood emergence?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Would a lack of biscuit coloured debris on the Varroa tray indicate low or nil brood emergence?

It might indicate brood wasn’t emerging but not that there was none

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Dosage again using LASI research is standard if i rememder 4.5gms per hive

nowhere near - 2.25g
and Lasi have never explored multiple vapings. Ratnieks flatly refused even to trial it.
and as for treatment ten days apart - you might as well just dab the damned stuff behind your ears.

 

[echidna]

I do mine based on fall on the monitoring board - I don't make any assumptions about autumn treatments doing the job. I've also found that a single vape when apparently broodless wasn't sufficient, based on ongoing mite fall. Maybe that's because my vapouriser or technique wasn't good, but I was following the instructions to the best of my ability.
I've done vapes every 4-5 days (timing dependent on weather so not too windy and not so cold bees likely to cluster) until I'm just getting a few mites falling over the two days after vaping. I know this goes against the regulations which only allow one per season but obviously there aren't supers on so I assume it's just a risk to the bees themselves (versus the risk posed by the varroa).

 

[pargyle]

I know this goes against the regulations which only allow one per season but obviously there aren't supers on so I assume it's just a risk to the bees themselves (versus the risk posed by the varroa).

No ... vaping does not harm the bees or the brood ... it's just miguided and ill-informed practice laid down in law by the VMD and regulatory bodies.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

vaping does not harm the bees or the brood

The trouble is, in the rush to corner the market on OA, they makers of Apibioxial just cobbled a 'one size fits all' set of instructions based on the LASI paper which covered vaping and trickling. Multiple trickling does harm the bees as they ingest it as they clean up the syrup which is the application vehicle, more importantly, the queen lives longer than one season so she gets a heavier dose of ingested OA

 

[pargyle]

The trouble is, in the rush to corner the market on OA, they makers of Apibioxial just cobbled a 'one size fits all' set of instructions based on the LASI paper which covered vaping and trickling. Multiple trickling does harm the bees as they ingest it as they clean up the syrup which is the application vehicle, more importantly, the queen lives longer than one season so she gets a heavier dose of ingested OA

My association had a talk recently about varroa and it's control .. Drone removal, queen trapping, OA trickling, MAQS Shook swarm, shook swarm, shook swarm ... OA by sublimation kills brood ... shock and horror when I suggested the most effective treatment was Vaping 3 x 5 ... The most effective treatment was almost discounted - dangerous, illegal, kills brood ... such blasted nonsense I was really perturbed ... (That's being polite !)

When are our regulatory authorities going to catch up with what most of us on here know already ?

Meanwhile our national association seems to have it's head up it's backside when they should be trying to push the cause of OA Sublimation .. just imagine, if every beekeeper in the UK was empowered to use a treatment that is known to be 97% effective and they were encouraged to do it ... how the varroa population generally would be reduced. I said it on here many years ago - there should be a national varroa week where everyone (even me as a TF beekeeper) was encouraged to treat for varroa. If you made it the last week in September or thereabouts the effect could be massive.

Local associations could purchase a couple of Instant Vaps to lend out to members without the necessary kit ... get the job done. The BBKA could do a deal to buy a bulk purchase and use it's buying power to pass on the savings to associations ... so much could be done - but I doubt that anything will be done !

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Watched a video on Bob Binnie's channel about using oxalic/glycerin impregnated sponges. At the end there was a slide from a couple of American beekeepers of their treatment regime. 4 gram dose, twice. Langstroths are bigger. Southern states of America.
We had a talk at the club from a local bee farmer and he's treating 3 times a year. New to me, I thought 2 times was enough.

 

[polymath]

nowhere near - 2.25g
and Lasi have never explored multiple vapings. Ratnieks flatly refused even to trial it.
and as for treatment ten days apart - you might as well just dab the damned stuff behind your ears.

Sorry you are right 2.25 but as for more than one treatment you are wrong, and i justify that statement by an email from the researcher below to me:

Dear David

We have done research to show that single and double applications of oxalic acid, 2.25g, by sublimation in brood less hives cause no harm to bees or colonies. The research we do and the advice we give is not for any one country but general, and beekeepers can adapt this to their own situation. It is a pity that the regs for VMD in UK only permit a single application per year by sublimation, when two applications can be done with no harm to the colony and increases the varroa kill to 99.6%, and suggests that the regs could usefully be changed, in light of the scientific evidence, to permit two or multiple applications. I will leave that for the powers that be to sort out.



best regards, Francis



Professor Francis L. W. Ratnieks

Laboratory of Apiculture & Social Insects (LASI)

School of Life Sciences

University of Sussex, Falmer, Brighton, UK, BN1 9QG

Tel: 01273 872954 (w); 01323 840551 (h); 07766270434 (mob.)

skype: FrancisRatnieks

[email protected]

www.sussex.ac.uk/lasi

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[polymath]

This article might interest a few in particular the table on different methods:

 

[polymath]

Here is research on multiple uses:

 

[polymath]

This paper covers the broodless periods