No Varroa

[jenkinsbrynmair]

here's a few I just snapped, excuse the poorly manicured habitat

Some people like it that way down there I believe there are specialist magazines

it's for living creatures to use

There are also specialist shampoos

just call me "BIG BOY".
Chris

I am told there are specialist magazines for that kind of thing as well.

I see Admin has been quick off the mark and substituted the photo for one
of a little apiary - have to protect the innocent you know (and we mustn't make stumpy feel inadequate

 

[nikca]

I personally think we should consider entering into diplomatic relations with the Varroa, they may be open to negotiations...

I had no idea anyone with just one hive could contribute something so funny... made me chuckle for a good minute.

So: 12 pages in and we now know Chris has lots of hives but no lawnmower, contributions from Finman are still like those from Kimi Raikkonen, and we are none the wiser about anything that matters...

 

[Luminos]

I had no idea anyone with just one hive could contribute something so funny... made me chuckle for a good minute.

So: 12 pages in and we now know Chris has lots of hives but no lawnmower, contributions from Finman are still like those from Kimi Raikkonen, and we are none the wiser about anything that matters...

As a newbie, this thread has taught me nothing useful about beekeeping and an awful lot about human nature.
With the accent on awful.

 

[Dishmop]

and we are none the wiser about anything that matters...

the simple reason for that is that you belong to the ranks of "Three Hive Owner" and do not qualify for the said required diploma of understanding grade 3.

I cant wait to populate my 4th hive.

 

[Dishmop]

As a newbie, this thread has taught me nothing useful about beekeeping and an awful lot about human nature.

Not even that if you treat your bees whether they need it or not you get more honey?

 

[user 6228]

The "reduced yield with non treatment for Varroa" belongs to the research of the obvious. Removing, killing Varroa, takes energy (laws of thermodynamics)

If the bees do it, it takes energy, if they dont do it, it takes energy. It takes energy to withstand or remove the varoa, that means yield. To assert this you dont need an experiment. To quantify the energy loss, it does.

The Energy loss needs to be countered in another way if you dont treat, "hygenic bees" or not.
Poly hives have higher yield yet most polyhive are built as cheap substitue for wood... This prompts the question does more insulation that a standard poly and not treating compensate the level of yield?

 

[Chris Luck]

Chris as I can see You have some nicotplast hives. What is your experience toward wooden ones? We don't have here poly or so, so always interesting to hear some different opinions.
Thanks.

I hate to admit it but they are very good, in fact excellent.

I'm going to put regular wooden Dadant crown boards and lids on when I get round to it, the plastic lid isn't really good and they only have a plastic tray for a "crown". I suspect top ventilation is a bit of an issue.

Very light and easy to handle and the bees really thrive in them, as and when I need new hives they are my hive of choice.

Chris

 

[Dishmop]

If the bees do it, it takes energy, if they dont do it, it takes energy. It takes energy to withstand or remove the varoa, that means yield. To assert this you dont need an experiment. To quantify the energy loss, it does.

Logical but I did say "if they need it or not"
Bees which are resistant wouldnt be using that energy to removes mites though, but Finman's reasoning is that because he has read a paper that resistant bees only yield half of what treated bees do, then even if he had resistant bees he would still treat them to get the increased yield.

 

[Roola]

I had no idea anyone with just one hive could contribute something so funny... made me chuckle for a good minute.

...

hmmm do i detect sarcasm.

 

[greengumbo]

Bees which are resistant wouldnt be using that energy to removes mites though

Hi Dishmop - the resistance is (mostly) down to them being good and active in removing mites and infected brood. It's not that the mites simply don't like their flavour or something. So I can actually see that resistant bees probably do spend more time, effort and therefore energy removing mites. I think this is what Finman is getting at.

Hope this helps.

 

[Vramin]

By 'resistant', do you mean bees that exist with varroa, but do not die, or bees that are resistant to becoming infested? Because if the bees have varroa and live with them, then clearly the parasite will be weakening the bees, or at least taking sustenance from them, which is bound to lead to reduced yield, notwithstanding the effects of virus infection from the varroa too, and perhaps reduced lifespan which will also impact on colony yield.

I want my bees to thrive and be as productive as possible, and that means keeping the parasite load as low as possible.

I think it is generally accepted that varroa infestation level should be kept to a minimum, and that we should therefore monitor and treat when levels reach a critical level.

Seems to me that Finman is simply saying what most of us do, and is talking sense, as he usually does.

 

[Skyhook]

I suppose so, but then I didnt just tell thousands of people that I keep a low profile because I dont want the tax man to know how much I am earning...to the ******** club

Can we keep this to a beekeeping discussion please? If you feel the need to post personal abuse, turn the computer off and go for a walk to cool down.


.

 

[Finman]

.
Varroa arrived to Finland almost 40 y ago. We have lived with it without any knowledge from UK.

After these years I get splended ideas, how to manage varroa.

It is not many years ago, when I teached in this forum, that killing mites is not against BritishLaw,
you may buy a digital balance with 10 pounds, you may mix your own oxalic acid,
you may open the hive in winter and so on.

And now guyshave learner something: "do nothing". It is that Beatles style let it be, let it be, let it be.

 

[Skyhook]

By 'resistant', do you mean bees that exist with varroa, but do not die, or bees that are resistant to becoming infested? Because if the bees have varroa and live with them, then clearly the parasite will be weakening the bees, or at least taking sustenance from them, which is bound to lead to reduced yield, notwithstanding the effects of virus infection from the varroa too, and perhaps reduced lifespan which will also impact on colony yield.

To clarify- 'resistant' means that they will get varroa but have methods of coping with/surviving the infestation. If they were proof against varroa, this would be immunity.

I don't think anyone is even contemplating immune bees. Even those working on resistance/tolerance accept that infestation is inevitable, the outcomeis then down to various forms of hygienic behaviour or cultural/chemical treatment, or a combination of these.

Vramin is quite correct that any level of infestation comes at a cost to the bees, the question is what level of cost is acceptable.

Having grown up on a smallholding, keeping your stock healthy seems to me better practice than keeping it infested with parasites, and considering that acceptable because it's not dying.


.

 

[user 6228]

Hi Dishmop - the resistance is (mostly) down to them being good and active in removing mites and infected brood. It's not that the mites simply don't like their flavour or something. So I can actually see that resistant bees probably do spend more time, effort and therefore energy removing mites. I think this is what Finman is getting at.

Hope this helps.

Its me that made the energy point. And yes that what I'm getting at...
Finman is getting goats

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's not that the mites simply don't like their flavour or something.

maybe dusting them with sugar would make them more palatable?

 

[user 6228]

To clarify- 'resistant' means that they will get varroa but have methods of coping with/surviving the infestation. If they were proof against varroa, this would be immunity.

I don't think anyone is even contemplating immune bees. Even those working on resistance/tolerance accept that infestation is inevitable, the outcomeis then down to various forms of hygienic behaviour or cultural/chemical treatment, or a combination of these.

Vramin is quite correct that any level of infestation comes at a cost to the bees, the question is what level of cost is acceptable.

Having grown up on a smallholding, keeping your stock healthy seems to me better practice than keeping it infested with parasites, and considering that acceptable because it's not dying.


.

It is apparent we cant get rid of the cost of varroa completely even with treatment. Treatment at the current level of effectiveness has transformed
V. Jacobisis into V. Destructor. There is a danger we are making V Destructor even more dangerous, by repeated and not complete treatments.
Time to consider different options, e.g. what do we have to do to make Varroa not a significant cost? We have attempted Varroa resistant Bees. Time to try developing Bee Friendly Varroa. and improving colony efficiency.

 

[nikca]

hmmm do i detect sarcasm.

Nope - SWMBO is a trekie... I thought the Varroa were from the Delta quadrant?

 

[BeeJayBee]

Do what in time?

Polka, foxtrot, waltz?

I cant wait to populate my 4th hive.

You have four hives, you are a 'four hive owner'! Well done. I don't think it's ever been said that that the hives have to have bees in them.

 

[Dishmop]

By 'resistant', do you mean bees that exist with varroa, but do not die, or bees that are resistant to becoming infested? Because if the bees have varroa and live with them, then clearly the parasite will be weakening the bees, or at least taking sustenance from them, which is bound to lead to reduced yield, notwithstanding the effects of virus infection from the varroa too, and perhaps reduced lifespan which will also impact on colony yield.

I dont know. It was Finman who brought up the subject of resistant bees by quoting something from a paper on the matter. That they only produced half the honey that treated bees do.