NHS 2019 videos

[MartinL]

Perform better at what ?

Perform better THAN!

those who are NOT "locally adapted"

i.e.

• Atlantic Salmon in the desert,

• Camel in Antarctic,

• Donald Trump on the streets of Tehran?

 

[SDM]

Perform better THAN!

those who are NOT "locally adapted"

i.e.

• Atlantic Salmon in the desert,

• Camel in Antarctic,

• Donald Trump on the streets of Tehran?

Ahh, so not like Bombus hypnorum, varroa mites, Asian hornets, Himalayan balsam, cain toads etc etc.
The assumption that something will be inferior simply because it didn't evolve for that specific environment has been disproved so many times now, that I'm surprised anyone dares raise the subject.

 

[For want of a better word]

Ahh, so not like Bombus hypnorum, varroa mites, Asian hornets, Himalayan balsam, cain toads etc etc.
The assumption that something will be inferior simply because it didn't evolve for that specific environment has been disproved so many times now, that I'm surprised anyone dares raise the subject.

Inferiority or supremesy due to the lack of natural preditors to keep it in check as in the environmental niche the species evolved in?

The sub species of ligurian and carniolian honey bees only made it into other geophysical areas because for some reason man decided to take them there.... as with many other invasive sub species of animals and plants ( and to keep the Vegans happy probably a lot of fungi and infectious diseases as well, measles, small pox, scarlet fever, etc etc)
John Chambers explains in the earlier part of his NHS lecture the barriers nature put in place to protect Northern Europe from the sub species of honey bees that I take it are now apparently becoming such a nuisance.

 

[SDM]

Nature didn't "put" barriers to separate them, they evolved separately because of the barriers, but since the ice age , they have hybridized naturally at their boundaries.
However, I'm not disputing how they got here, I'm disputing that now they are, they are in some way inherently inferior because they evolved in another remarkably similar environment.

 

[mbc]

Nature didn't "put" barriers to separate them, they evolved separately because of the barriers, but since the ice age , they have hybridized naturally at their boundaries.
However, I'm not disputing how they got here, I'm disputing that now they are, they are in some way inherently inferior because they evolved in another remarkably similar environment.

The way that they are inherently inferior is that they will not breed true here in Britain but will always dilute down left to their own devices, whereas natives can breed true in nature and so improvement could be fixed in to a population without constant imports or ii.

 

[Antipodes]

Just finished watching the John Donoghue lecture. I thought that was excellent. Thanks for the link.

 

[SDM]

The way that they are inherently inferior is that they will not breed true here in Britain but will always dilute down left to their own devices, whereas natives can breed true in nature and so improvement could be fixed in to a population without constant imports or ii.

Sorry, but that's just tripe. Whether imported or native any subspecies will breed true given sufficient saturation. More relevant to the UK is that nothing will without it.
And I'm sorry but "nature" and "improvement" don't belong in the same sentence where breeding better bees is concerned.

 

[oxnatbees]

For those of you who bought the book Honeybees of the british isles cooper beowulf

What do you think? I'm a little sceptical buying a book out of print and will probably come back in print for £50 when the list price is £9

Very good book, lots of info

The key thing in beekeeping books is not whether you agree with the conclusions, it is whether the book has any observational data. That remains useful whether the theory is disproved or not.

I thought Northern Bee Books were republishing it - it shouldn't be £50 - it's not large

 

[mbc]

Sorry, but that's just tripe. Whether imported or native any subspecies will breed true given sufficient saturation. More relevant to the UK is that nothing will without it.
And I'm sorry but "nature" and "improvement" don't belong in the same sentence where breeding better bees is concerned.

Amm drones outcompete the foreign fellas, ask itld with his 3000ish strong 'saturation' of carnies, he writes that they revert to near amm over time if left to open mate .

 

[madasafish]

The way that they are inherently inferior is that they will not breed true here in Britain but will always dilute down left to their own devices, whereas natives can breed true in nature and so improvement could be fixed in to a population without constant imports or ii.

SO on that basis the "native black bee of the UK" should outperform every other bee at everything according to what you have written..

Pity they were decimated in the 1920s by some disease...

And local bees here are swarmy and horrible - but are left alone - so disproving the assertion made ..

And you obviously have read nothing about beekeeping in Germany...

 

[For want of a better word]

SO

And you obviously have read nothing about beekeeping in Germany...

Germany is having massive problems with its bees and beekeeping

https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/environment/bees-at-risk-germanys-strategy-for-protecting-bees

 

[mbc]

SO on that basis the "native black bee of the UK" should outperform every other bee at everything according to what you have written..

Pity they were decimated in the 1920s by some disease...

And local bees here are swarmy and horrible - but are left alone - so disproving the assertion made ..

And you obviously have read nothing about beekeeping in Germany...

Try reading it through again, I can't have garbled the writing that badly for you to take that away from that post, but maybe...

 

[SDM]

Amm drones outcompete the foreign fellas, ask itld with his 3000ish strong 'saturation' of carnies, he writes that they revert to near amm over time if left to open mate .

3,000 covering half the UK lol
You'll be telling me next that Carnica don't breed true in Germany.
Have you never wondered why he doesn't let them if that would be an improvement?

 

[SDM]

Germany is having massive problems with its bees and beekeeping

https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/environment/bees-at-risk-germanys-strategy-for-protecting-bees

That article says beekeeping is booming in Germany( and all they had to do was get rid of their Amm)
It's the rest of their bee species that are in trouble.

 

[drex]

So, one of the questions put here is what constitutes " locally adapted" . In his lecture John Chambers gives an example of bees moved from urban Paris 400 km away to a more rural setting, and vice versa. Neither lots of bees did as well in the new territory as they did in the old.

I have no strong opinions on the subject, but possibly am more in the BIBBA camp. I rear my own queens and am happy with the results. But each to their own

 

[SDM]

So, one of the questions put here is what constitutes " locally adapted" . In his lecture John Chambers gives an example of bees moved from urban Paris 400 km away to a more rural setting, and vice versa. Neither lots of bees did as well in the new territory as they did in the old.

I have no strong opinions on the subject, but possibly am more in the BIBBA camp. I rear my own queens and am happy with the results. But each to their own

I seriously doubt that PARIS has a stable locally adapted honeybee population.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I seriously doubt that PARIS has a stable locally adapted honeybee population.

The ones on the roof of the Notre Dame seem remarkably resilient though

 

[SDM]

The ones on the roof of the Notre Dame seem remarkably resilient though

 

[mbc]

3,000 covering half the UK lol
You'll be telling me next that Carnica don't breed true in Germany.
Have you never wondered why he doesn't let them if that would be an improvement?

There are areas where one would expect the farmed bees of itld to be in the vast majority.
The purest German carnica have a little residual amm mitochondrial DNA iirc, even after state sponsored ethnic cleansing of the bees in favour of carnica for the best part of a century.
You should try broadening your knowledge outside of your preferred narrow narrative.
Lol.

 

[SDM]

There are areas where one would expect the farmed bees of itld to be in the vast majority.
The purest German carnica have a little residual amm mitochondrial DNA iirc, even after state sponsored ethnic cleansing of the bees in favour of carnica for the best part of a century.
You should try broadening your knowledge outside of your preferred narrow narrative.
Lol.

What has the "vast majority' got to do with breeding true ? Either they're pure breeding or they're not.
PMSL You really must pass this on to the bee research institute in Oberusel since you claim to have better info about their bees than they do
But what would that tell us anyway? That it wasn't possible to make Germany entirely free of honeybees before introducing Amc ? You'd have to wipe out honeybees entirely, wait a year or two to confirm it, then reintroduce the new race to ensure purity and even then they would have hybridized at Germany's borders.