New Zealand bees.

[moor141]

Does anyone have any experience regarding the New Zealand bees. Having read a bit about them I can see some possible draw backs, i.e varroa resistance and also the yearly cycle being a--e about face. I'm looking to increase my stocks in the new year and may buy in a few colony's. Depending on how my current colony's get through the winter.

 

[dpearce4]

Put your tin hat on. lol

lots on here dont like imports of bees.

 

[Skyhook]

Put your tin hat on. lol

lots on here dont like imports of bees.

Not to mention (sigh) the fact there are no new zealand honey bees.

Decide whether Amm, Italian, Carniolan, Buckfast or some other sort best meet your requirements. Having decided, if it's Italian or Carnolian you want, them decide if there's a good reason to get them from a New Zealand breeder.

I might as well talk to myself, honestly.....

 

[gavin]

Put your tin hat on. lol

lots on here dont like imports of bees.

I don't, but in Surrey trying to breed Amm may well be a lost cause. Do you know what your existing bees are like and what bees are in your area? Try to be compatible with your neighbours so that yours don't get cross after a generation or two, and you don't do the same thing to your neighbours.

I've seen Murray's NZ Carniolans and they are very gentle and productive bees. Having been imported directly as packages they went ahead and developed as normal despite the season shift for them.

 

[gavin]

I might as well talk to myself, honestly.....

I suppose that what is important (for any bee race) is whether the stock is selected or not. Some NZ breeders have a high reputation (maybe most?). Some bee traders .... who may or may not have been alluded to on this forum .... have sourced queens from anyone with cheap stock to sell off, and as a result a lot of people (particularly beginners) have ended up with swarmy, hard to manage stocks. So basic bee type matters, and the origin also matters to some extent as that can be a measure of whether you are getting good selected bees or not.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Why not buy local bees proven to be successful in your area?

I know you asked about NZ bees, but why take the risk of something unpredictable, when you can get something with a history and track record on your doorstep??

Personally, I will never understand peoples' desire to import bees.
On a beekeeping level alone.

 

[For want of a better word]

I have what I call New Zealand bees....
Bought a nuc from a very respected beekeeper down in the Southhams

They are productive good natured and very blonde.... my one nuc has expanded to five.
Produced by AS/ split and queens raise in incubator.. no idea what or who fathers were!

I also have Carniolians, dark productive and good natured... however the first cross can be feisty!

Quite why you would want to buy in bees from NZ?

What you need is a nice tempered and productive bee that is not going to give you a hard time!

Happy new year

 

[Chris B]

Personally, I will never understand peoples' desire to import bees.
On a beekeeping level alone.

You might not agree with it but the motivation isn't hard to understand....the main attraction is young mated queens a month or so before you could possibly get your own reared. Making a nuc or package with a new queen is likely to give a productive and maintenance free colony for the rest of the season's nectar flows, very significant if your living depends on it. Any genetic advantages (and disadvantages) are secondary.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

also in some areas there are not the quantity of bees for sale that the local market needs.

 

[bobster]

As a responsible beekeeper the last thing you should be doing is importing bees. Especially all the way from NZ.

If you need to make increase why not raise your own queens, or make some splits in the spring?

If you just want more bees I know a good Apiary in Surrey where they raise and sell local queens/nucs. If you're interested you can PM me.

Bobster

 

[Swarm]

Realising the arguments for imports, with 4 colonies the OP is hardly commercial. Why not simply make increase from existing stock?

 

[the naked beekeeper]

You might not agree with it but the motivation isn't hard to understand....the main attraction is young mated queens a month or so before you could possibly get your own reared. Making a nuc or package with a new queen is likely to give a productive and maintenance free colony for the rest of the season's nectar flows, very significant if your living depends on it. Any genetic advantages (and disadvantages) are secondary.

Fair post.

But surely, importing genetics is not only exacerbating mongrelisation and more unpredictable matings, but it also sets you up on a downward spiral. You will never get those queens mated here, so you have to consistenly keep up the annual buying in and that also ruins any chance you have of mating and selling your own queens.

As another poster said, the demand for bees and queens outstrips the supply, so if you are making a living from bees (which this poster is arguably not...yet), then you have a ready made market for your product to capitalise in on. A good bit of marketing and I don't know of a beekeeper that wouldn't want to buy local, productive bees.

As such it doesn't matter whether this country is a month behind others, as the demand for bees won't change and you will still have that market.

And I would argue that genetic implications are not secondary, but play a very important factor in the business for the above reasons.

 

[moor141]

Thanks was only after an opinion, I guess I got that. We have a local breeder selling them in nucs. In an ideal world I'll breed from existing stock which is the prefured method any how.

 

[Chris B]

And I would argue that genetic implications are not secondary, but play a very important factor in the business for the above reasons.

Apologies for the ambiguity. I'll rephrase. Any genetic advantages are secondary motivations for most beekeepers importing queens, and there are also disadvantages.

Having said that I doubt many beekeepers import bees at all, but may buy imported queens from a supplier simply because that's all that's available. (I know for a fact only 2 beekeepers in Worcestershire imported last year and we have at least 500 beekeepers in the county).

 

[Poly Hive]

On the matter of quantity of imports one might be mistaken in thinking they are relatively few. Not so.

some 20 years ago I trialled NZ Bees which were I believe Italian in origion, they were a soft tawny colour, quite placid and utterly useless in the NE of Scotland climate. The blacks were busy flying and the NZ lot were lounging on the entrance obviously thinking too cold lets wait for some warmth. The blacks had supers of honey the Italians nothing.

I am now trialling the Carniolian NZ bees and they are very different. Near black, very quiet on the comb and productive. I have yet to see how the first cross is but no doubt will find out this season coming.

There are NZ bees and NZ bees.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

some 20 years ago I trialled NZ Bees which were I believe Italian in origion, they were a soft tawny colour, quite placid and utterly useless in the NE of Scotland climate.

There was a bit of a fad with those yellow things,and they were quite useless here in the south as well.

 

[Somerford]

Why not buy local bees proven to be successful in your area?

I know you asked about NZ bees, but why take the risk of something unpredictable, when you can get something with a history and track record on your doorstep??

Personally, I will never understand peoples' desire to import bees.
On a beekeeping level alone.

An excellent suggestion....

 

[Poly Hive]

I fully agree Somerford but.........and you know the buts as well as any here.

Sadly they winna go away. If one is realistic imports have been going on for a good 100 years, admittedly at not the same rate as now, but they were happening.

Until we can all agree on what bee to use, and we all know that is impossible as the requirements are different for different people, imports are going to continue.

PH

 

[the naked beekeeper]

I fully agree Somerford but.........and you know the buts as well as any here.

Sadly they winna go away. If one is realistic imports have been going on for a good 100 years, admittedly at not the same rate as now, but they were happening.

Until we can all agree on what bee to use, and we all know that is impossible as the requirements are different for different people, imports are going to continue.

PH

I think people need to forget about any typology or 'nomenclature'...of such and such a bee, it just clouds the issue. NZ bees, Italian bees, Hawaaian bees etc which is better than which, which is the holy grail. The strain can never be maintained anyway, except for II.

Instead, beekeepers should work with what they've got to produce a successful bee and I'm sure we can nearly all agree on some major qualities to select for in that regard...good honey producers, supercedure tendency against swarming, hygienic behaviour, manageable temperament, responsive queen to honey flows.....what 'bee' will it be?.........it won't be a bee per se...and that's the beauty of it..no name to argue about, or get confused about....it will just be a successful bee.

I don't know why people want to play about with other stuff.
Is it the novelty value?
Boredom?
Lack of confidence/competence?

There is no magic, perfect bee and selecting and improving one's own is a continual, perpetual, organic process and brings the beekeeper even closer to his/her bees.
Indeed it is a rite de passage.
Trying to leapfrog the learning curves and import diferent labels of bee, misses a large chunk of the beekeepers learning...namely using observation to assess colonies. Without that, you may as well be told everything and sold everything in ABC.

I understand a great percentage of beeks are amateurs and part timers, because I am too. But observation and selection are pre-requisite to moving up the rungs. Until people have those, the arguments and goalposts of different 'types' of bee will forever be changing and moving. And we'll have this ridiculous set of discussions IMO, about which type of bee is better than which type of bee!

Forget about it!

Just improve your bees full stop.
What bee is it?
A good bee!

 

[Poly Hive]

You have omitted the major, nay the primary and massive driver.

Availability.

PH