Natural or Unmanaged?

[sunhivebee]

If they need additional feeding, doesn't that suggest that the hives are too small? Wouldn't a container of the right volume ensure that the bees have enough of their own stores to last through to Spring?

You're obviously not giving them sugar syrup, so where do you source the honey for supplementary feeding?

Well, you must be one of the lucky people whose new colonies were able to collect sufficient stores in the wash-out which was 2012. Some of mine have not been so lucky, I'm afraid, and as it is, I would rather err on the side of caution. I feed my bees sugar when honey supplies run out.
But, as I have stated on many occasions before, I do not advocate the feeding of sugar to substitute for the honey removed by the beekeeper. Strangely, a rather shameful practice still widely pursued by beekeepers, but a total waste of time to discuss. They will have their reasons and I have no desire to know them.

 

[drumgerry]

I'll try asking another question as you didn't bother answering my last one Heidi.

Let me get it straight. You think the practice of beekeepers who take full supers off of their hives and give the bees an Autumn feed is shameful? Seriously? If that's what you do think then you're maybe right that there's no point discussing it as I'm at a loss for words.

And you yourself feed your bees sugar when required?

Slight double standard going on there methinks.

 

[Dishmop]

I suppose that taking honey from the bees is not natural, and by ignoring that rule one has to feed later in the year, which is not natural.

A swarm is natural. Feeding it isnt.

 

[Dishmop]

But, as I have stated on many occasions before, I do not advocate the feeding of sugar to substitute for the honey removed by the beekeeper

Do you remove any honey?

 

[drumgerry]

Keeping bees in whatever container you happen to use and by whatever method isn't natural - whether they originate from swarms (which of course nowadays are 99% from other people's bees) or not. Trying to say that this or that is natural or isn't seems rather pointless but then we have 9 pages of pointless now!

 

[pargyle]

OK then.... conventional and unconventional beekeepers ? Do the words really matter - it's how the hives are managed that differs ...

 

[sunhivebee]

I'll try asking another question as you didn't bother answering my last one Heidi.

Let me get it straight. You think the practice of beekeepers who take full supers off of their hives and give the bees an Autumn feed is shameful? Seriously? If that's what you do think then you're maybe right that there's no point discussing it as I'm at a loss for words.

And you yourself feed your bees sugar when required?

Slight double standard going on there methinks.

Absolutely no double standards: sugar feeding is for emergencies, but NOT FOR THE EMERGENCY CAUSED BY BEEKEEPERS WHO RECKON THAT THE BEES CAN BE FED RUBBISH SO THAT THEY CAN EAT HONEY OR SO THAT SUPOERMARKETS CAN STOCK IT IN VAST QUANTITIES WHILE BEES ARE fed rubbish to keep them going.

It is my understanding of common sense, Curiously, many of the above beekeepers spend a lot of their time bell-aching about the various maladies of their bees, when really it is so crystal clear that a creature thrives best on the food which to ingest it was made.

Nectar is a very different substance from sugar water, but to see that requires imagination. I am not interested to discuss the chemical properties, by the way, so please don't interpret my non-participation in further discussions of this as rudeness.

 

[Dishmop]

Keeping bees in whatever container you happen to use and by whatever method isn't natural - whether they originate from swarms (which of course nowadays are 99% from other people's bees) or not. Trying to say that this or that is natural or isn't seems rather pointless but then we have 9 pages of pointless now!

Precisely.

Only natural way is that they are left alone. But "Natural" sounds so good.

 

[Dishmop]

Absolutely no double standards: sugar feeding is for emergencies,

If the bees were living as nature intended there would be no "emergencies" because you wouldnt know if they had enough food or not.
An emergency is not a swarm of bees that you have collected and put in a box. The bees topped up on food before they swarmed.. If you decide you want to put them in a box its not up to you to entice them to stay there by giving them food. By feeding them you are removing their need to go and forage for their own food, which to them is natural. If there was not food out there to forage, its unlikely that they would have swarmed only to die of starvation.

 

[Dishmop]

It is my understanding of common sense, Curiously, many of the above beekeepers spend a lot of their time bell-aching about the various maladies of their bees, when really it is so crystal clear that a creature thrives best on the food which to ingest it was made.

Have you told the Americans that, because its not even sugar they feed theirs on.

 

[drumgerry]

Absolutely no double standards: sugar feeding is for emergencies, but NOT FOR THE EMERGENCY CAUSED BY BEEKEEPERS WHO RECKON THAT THE BEES CAN BE FED RUBBISH SO THAT THEY CAN EAT HONEY OR SO THAT SUPOERMARKETS CAN STOCK IT IN VAST QUANTITIES WHILE BEES ARE fed rubbish to keep them going.

It is my understanding of common sense, Curiously, many of the above beekeepers spend a lot of their time bell-aching about the various maladies of their bees, when really it is so crystal clear that a creature thrives best on the food which to ingest it was made.

Nectar is a very different substance from sugar water, but to see that requires imagination. I am not interested to discuss the chemical properties, by the way, so please don't interpret my non-participation in further discussions of this as rudeness.

It seems to me that, when pressed, the last resort of the fanatic is to indulge in the use of emotive language to belittle their opponents. You use the term "rubbish". Yet you're happy to use the said "rubbish" when it suits you. That's the very definition of a double standard.

And I don't see that the drawing of an arbitrary line of when and when not to feed helps you much on this Heidi. It smacks of sophistry.

I think it's time ordinary beekeepers stood up to the likes of you. We are the ones keeping our bees alive through thick and thin and should be recognised for doing so.

And yet you have not still addressed the question of what you would have commercial beekeepers do. Would you have them go out of business? I suspect so from your silence on the matter. And leave the fate of bees in the hands of the "natural" beekeepers? I suspect the honeybee would have a bleak future in such a world.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

.

And yet you have not still addressed the question of what you would have commercial beekeepers do. Would you have them go out of business?

I think from the tone of this reply - yes

NOT FOR THE EMERGENCY CAUSED BY BEEKEEPERS WHO RECKON THAT THE BEES CAN BE FED RUBBISH SO THAT THEY CAN EAT HONEY OR SO THAT SUPOERMARKETS CAN STOCK IT IN VAST QUANTITIES.
.

Notwithstanding the fact that most of the supermarket honey would still be flooding in from China etc.

I think it's time ordinary beekeepers stood up to the likes of you. We are the ones keeping our bees alive through thick and thin and should be recognised for doing so.

Hear Hear - I have no objection to them carrying on in their little touchy feely wonderland - but don't demonise other people who live in the real world and have different views.

And leave the fate of bees in the hands of the "natural" beekeepers? I suspect the honeybee would have a bleak future in such a world.

 

[sunhivebee]

"I think it's time ordinary beekeepers stood up to the likes of you. We are the ones keeping our bees alive through thick and thin and should be recognised for doing so. "

Wow, you are really getting going now! Me biig man start a little war ... I suggest you calm down.

"And yet you have not still addressed the question of what you would have commercial beekeepers do. Would you have them go out of business? I suspect so from your silence on the matter. And leave the fate of bees in the hands of the "natural" beekeepers? I suspect the honeybee would have a bleak future in such a world."

Thank you for your efforts to re-educate me. The bees have a bleak presence, as we all know, and I am very sorry that you should feel so stung that this natural beekeeper stands up to you! I will not lower myself to say "the likes" of you, because it's needlessly rude.

With this I conclude my participation in this discussion, to give you time to resume your life and myself to talk to my bees - it has been most interesting. Thank you.
With best wishes
Heidi

 

[drumgerry]

Thank you for your efforts to re-educate me. Very touching. The bees have a bleak presence, as we all know, and I am very sorry that you should feel so stung that this natural beekeeper stands up to the likes of you. But I understand, being of a quite compassionate nature.
And with this I would like to conclude my participation in this discussion, to give you time to resume your life and myself to talk to my bees.
With best wishes
Heidi

Hmm....a compassionate nature and yet you resort to the describing me as "the likes of you". Doesn't really fit with your self-image does it? Maybe if you did less talking to your bees and more caring for them....

 

[madasafish]

I am all in favour of people being against anything.
eg neonics, commercial beekeeping, hunting, etc


But when they duck out when asked about the consequences or the alternatives, it makes you realise they have not thought through their arguments.

(and anyone who says we should change world farming methods overnight is a fantasist)..


I have yet to read a reasoned argument * giving clear , logical and practical alternatives..
* at least on UK beekeeping forums.

 

[drumgerry]

Me biig man start a little war ... I suggest you calm down.

Pathetic. I'm never less than calm pal.

 

[mbc]

With this I conclude my participation in this discussion,
With best wishes
Heidi

Epic !
Thanks for your time.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

These celebrity beekeepers - so temperamental aren't they?

 

[madasafish]

A certain Butcher (aged) in the TV series "Dad's Army" had a phrase for it...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

........They do not like captain Mainwaring sir (to end the sentence!)