Natural England article on 'Non/Native' bees?

[mbc]

I have two of Ceri’s queens. I’m really looking forward to working with them too but I’m sure he doesn’t sell them as Amm. You can have great bees that are not Amm

I'm very careful to try not to missrepresent my bees as they're all open mated, but I do sell them as teifi valley natives which implies Amm, which they mostly are, last time any were tested Dylan Elen popped over to one of my apiaries and took a few samples at random and these came back as over 80% Amm.
I've had a few breeder queens test at over 90% in the past and that was very pleasant but the most important thing for me is that the bees breed true for the characters I'm after, mainly productivity and docility.
I've chosen to stick with natives because I don't believe I could breed anything else here with open mating which would lead to stable progress within the offspring. So long as I'm going forwards I'm not overly concerned about purity and don't have any sort of regular testing regime for this.
When thinking about purity it has been tempting to buy in some pure amm stock to make my general stock more pure, but on balance I decided that would defeat the object of the conservation project of trying to maintain, improve and conserve my own teifi valley natives.
At the end of the day what I'm after is a good bee that keeps bringing in the honey to pay our mortgage without being too demanding in terms of inputs, feed, time and effort. It's all a work in progress and sometimes I wish I'd taken an easier path(buying in stock) but I see myself as something of a rare breeds beefarmer, and to be honest, finmans quite right, it's mostly about the pastures, (if I'm honest I'm a bit jealous of the takes cgf achieved with the nucs I sold him! Good work Mark!)
I don't see anyone else averaging better than me with imported buckfast or carnie stock around here(Italian's seem to be a thing of the past with very few kept in the area,) but of course, all the selection and queen rearing does mean I'm too busy to get around to everything I'd like to in the busiest parts of the year.
Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Erichalfbee]

At the end of the day what I'm after is a good bee that keeps bringing in the honey to pay our mortgage without being too demanding in terms of inputs, feed, time and effort. It's all a work in progress and sometimes I wish I'd taken an easier path(buying in stock) but I see myself as something of a rare breeds beefarmer, and to be honest, finmans quite right, it's mostly about the pastures,

And that is exactly the sort of bee most of us want after all.

 

[Murox]

I wish. I’ve tried four times and each time the bees let the new queen lay then nobbled her and raised their own. The daughters were ok but that’s not what I’d been after. Hey ho. Can’t win them all

You can say that again, my first JG queen settled in and they promptly absconded, never did find any trace.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I have two of Ceri’s queens. I’m really looking forward to working with them too but I’m sure he doesn’t sell them as Amm. You can have great bees that are not Amm

I think they are as much native as you will find to Wales.
Last season I gave a virgin queen to the association which was a daughter of one of his queen's and she has been as good as what they have seen.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I'm very careful to try not to missrepresent my bees as they're all open mated, but I do sell them as teifi valley natives which implies Amm, which they mostly are, last time any were tested Dylan Elen popped over to one of my apiaries and took a few samples at random and these came back as over 80% Amm.
I've had a few breeder queens test at over 90% in the past and that was very pleasant but the most important thing for me is that the bees breed true for the characters I'm after, mainly productivity and docility.
I've chosen to stick with natives because I don't believe I could breed anything else here with open mating which would lead to stable progress within the offspring. So long as I'm going forwards I'm not overly concerned about purity and don't have any sort of regular testing regime for this.
When thinking about purity it has been tempting to buy in some pure amm stock to make my general stock more pure, but on balance I decided that would defeat the object of the conservation project of trying to maintain, improve and conserve my own teifi valley natives.
At the end of the day what I'm after is a good bee that keeps bringing in the honey to pay our mortgage without being too demanding in terms of inputs, feed, time and effort. It's all a work in progress and sometimes I wish I'd taken an easier path(buying in stock) but I see myself as something of a rare breeds beefarmer, and to be honest, finmans quite right, it's mostly about the pastures, (if I'm honest I'm a bit jealous of the takes cgf achieved with the nucs I sold him! Good work Mark!)
I don't see anyone else averaging better than me with imported buckfast or carnie stock around here(Italian's seem to be a thing of the past with very few kept in the area,) but of course, all the selection and queen rearing does mean I'm too busy to get around to everything I'd like to in the busiest parts of the year.
Swings and roundabouts.

Just seen this, even if you did buy in purer Amm they would more than likely be replaced in there first season... Something to be said about locally adapted native bees.
There must be as @Erichalfbee said about her Irish queen's they always supersed, I've had one do it Ive also had bucks do it and a few of ceris do it.
Increase for me mainly will be from what I have, I can't wait to hear how my own queen's get on next season.
Which are Welsh and Shropshire locals.

 

[rolande]

can't wait to hear how my own queen's get on next season.
Which are Welsh and Shropshire locals.

Don't forget to raise that extra half dozen (10 if you like)!

 

[Curly green finger's]

Don't forget to raise that extra half dozen (10 if you like)!

I thought it was only one blimey

 

[Erichalfbee]

There must be as @Erichalfbee said about her Irish queen's they always supersed, I've had one do it Ive also had bucks do it and a few of ceris do it.

How many of Ceri’s did you lose?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just seen this, even if you did buy in purer Amm they would more than likely be replaced in there first season

Why?

 

[Curly green finger's]

How many of Ceri’s did you lose?

Two out of 24

 

[Curly green finger's]

Why?

Because local bees are fickle and they know what they want.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Because local bees are fickle and they know what they want.

First I've heard of that

 

[rolande]

I thought it was only one blimey

No

 

[Curly green finger's]

No

blunt as ever

 

[Erichalfbee]

Two out of 24

Ah. It’s just that you said a few

Because local bees are fickle and they know what they want.

I’ve introduced scores of Buckies to swarms of local bees I’ve caught and never had a problem

 

[Curly green finger's]

I was including queens from one of the nucs I had they were building up in a single and the other was an intro.
Interesting the intro queen that superseded is now wintering on double brood.

 

[mbc]

Because local bees are fickle and they know what they want.

Willie Robson is a great believer in this and talks convincingly of his own experience of it, rekons incomers are almost duty bound to swarm a lot at first so as to realign their genetics with what's about.
It's a bit of a stretch but I do believe there's a lot more going on between colonies within range of each other than we currently know about.

 

[rolande]

Willie Robson is a great believer in this and talks convincingly of his own experience of it, rekons incomers are almost duty bound to swarm a lot at first so as to realign their genetics with what's about.
It's a bit of a stretch but I do believe there's a lot more going on between colonies within range of each other than we currently know about.

For what it's worth I'd agree with you on that. There's surely a lot of stuff still to be nailed down. An example would be thread on usurpation started by B+ back in the summer.

 

[Arfermo]

so do mine, I've even got a a hive full of Irish genes too.

The Irish ones came across in boats or swam?

 

[Murox]

The Irish ones came across in boats or swam?

The probably flew. - I periodically find live bees on the beach, prevailing winds being westerly.