Natural beekeeping

[Brosville]

I just bung mine through a coarse sieve - it's raw honey, with all the "bits".
I've never used frames, but I gather you can "melt" a strip of foundation onto the underside of the top of the frame (or stick some string on using melted beeswax) - the bees will then fill the frames themselves...

 

[Suzi Q]

There's all sorts of different starter strips - half an inch of conventional foundation, some use a triangular sectioned piece of wood (or "lolly sticks") dipped in wax, attached to underside of the top of the frame, I use cotton string stuck onto the top bars with molten beeswax

How secure is the 'natural' comb attached to the brood frames? I'm thinking when looking for swarm cells/eggs/etc etc. I had an unfortunate experience with a TBH, a lovely full comb of brood dropped off.

 

[Brosville]

I think you've answered that one yourself - you need to be really careful with top bar combs, less so if there are frames...

 

[busybee53]

I am interested that you don't supress swarming (hence no need to clip or mark). Assume your bees sometimes swarm then? Do they leave enough bees behind for the hive to still be viable?

Have you had complaints about your bees ending up in people's gardens/chimneys etc? Do you go and recapture them to put in another hive if possible?

What sort of amount of honey (for yourself) would you expect from a hive normally? How much would you expect if the hive had swarmed?

Sorry to ask so many questions but I would like to do my best for the bees, with some honey for myself, but I really don't want to annoy people nearby so I would really be interested to know the answer to the questions I have asked.

 

[margob99]

Regarding no foundation/no frames, there were some interesting comments in Jurgen Tautz' "The Buzz about Bees" mentioning that their research showed that comb is in fact used as a communication device by the bees; who vibrate it to send messages to other bees in pulses of motion. By restricting comb inside a rigid frame, this communication mechanism is adversely affected which is why you often find holes in comb on frames.

Well, this was the commentary in the book anyway ....

 

[Finman]

.
Non losses beekeeping is unnatural.

In Australia in nature living colonies die annually 20%. They have not varroa.

If they are in Europe, dead rate may be over 50%. Varroa and cold kills.

It is great humbug that keep domestic animal is like keep them in nature.

 

[Suzi Q]

Regarding no foundation/no frames, there were some interesting comments in Jurgen Tautz' "The Buzz about Bees" mentioning that their research showed that comb is in fact used as a communication device by the bees; who vibrate it to send messages to other bees in pulses of motion. By restricting comb inside a rigid frame, this communication mechanism is adversely affected which is why you often find holes in comb on frames.

Well, this was the commentary in the book anyway ....

Yes!..that's interesting, I had an observation panel on TBH, and saw bees doing a kind of vibration on the edge of the comb.

 

[Finman]

.
Brosville, how much you extract/ take honey per hive annually?

 

[Brosville]

I take what they can spare.... (I am NOT driven by commercial considerations)
I certainly don't try to subvert their natural desire to swarm - I'm fortunate that I live in a country area where the local people don't bat an eyelid at a swarm (why should they?)
Lots of questions about yield - as I said, I take what they can spare - I get sufficient for my needs, when I have some "spare" I give it to family and friends, but honey yield isn't of prime importance - I don't subscribe to the theory that you are in any way "losing" from a hive swarming, my attitude is "whoopee - new colony!" - if they have chosen the time to do it, then they will probably benefit all round from it, and soon recoup any imagined "losses".

As for claims about "humbug", as I stated in my first post in this thread, no beekeeping is truly natural, just some of us try to be more natural!

 

[susan2016]

Excellent post Brosville. Personally, I don't keep bees for the honey but to study and observe the insects. The honey is a by product of my interest and I too, would leave them all the honey if that's what their needs dictate.

 

[mbc]

IMO this attitude to honey is bordering on sinfully wasteful and arguably far more selfish ecologically than the more healthy (imho) traditional goal of harvesting as much honey as possible without jeopardizing the winter survival of the bees

 

[VEG]

There is NO natural beekeeping.

 

[susan2016]

Not wasteful at all. What I have said is that the insects are more important to me personally than the honey. The reward to me is not the honey but a healthy colony. I did not say I didn't use the extra honey (and enjoy it!) simply that, if given a choice between honey and bees I would choose to keep bees for the joy of keeping bees. The bees don't make honey for me, they make it for themselves and I take a share of that. No-one said anything about wasting honey?? I don't see how the above is ecologically suspect.

 

[Brosville]

Some people consider that "conventional" beehives and management techniques place bees under stress to produce more honey than is actually healthy for them...
I really can't agree with accusations of "selfishness" and "sinfully wasteful" - in my view "natural beekeeping" is far more gentle on the environment all round - hives can be (and are often) made from recycled timber, there are virtually no "inputs" - no foundation, frames, sugar or "chemicals" - no costly extraction/filtering/bottling devices... I would never suggest more natural methods for those intent on maximum honey production - the more conventional techniques are geared towards honey production first, and there is no doubt they can produce large yields...
What on earth is "selfish" about letting the bees have as natural a life as possible? - if people are hell bent on honey production, that's their way of doing it, it's not mine, but there's no reason to try to belittle a different approach with different priorities - if the bees are healthy, what's the problem?

ps for VEG - to quote myself from my first post in this thread
"It's a widely used misnomer - no beekeeping is by definition entirely natural - but there are some of us who seek to be "more natural" in the way we keep our bees, and I'm happy for it to be known as "natural beekeeping"

 

[susan2016]

Bravo

 

[VEG]

not a go at you bros. Call it whatever you like it all boils down to the same thing "there is No natural beekeeping". I am a keeper of bees I dont pretend to be anything else. I look after my bees to the best of my ability.

 

[mbc]

I don't see how the above is ecologically suspect.

1.bees that collect more honey pollinate more flowers
2.honey is a nutritious, healthy and relatively scarce food source
3.feral swarms collapsing from untreated varroa negatively impact other colonies in the area

 

[susan2016]

Agreed Veg and MBC and I am very thankful that the bees share their food with me. We ALL want to look after the bees to the best of our ability and we take that responsibility seriously I am sure.

 

[The Cumbrian]

I am a keeper of bees I dont pretend to be anything else. I look after my bees to the best of my ability.

I (now) prefer the term used by a member of this forum speaking at the Cumbria Beekeepers Association Autumn Conference and Honey Show "Bee Servant".

 

[Brosville]

There is no need to "maximise" production of honey in a hobbyist context - as can be seen in all areas of "farming", pushing any living creature to maximum yields tends to end in tears, and can often only be sustained as a result of hefty and unsustainable inputs and "chemicals"
I'm not "pushing" my bees at all, and I'll certainly never rob them of honey and replace with sugar..
And I vigorously dispute the veracity of "3" - in my experience, what does feral swarms damage are such things as spray drift and lack of suitable habitat - certainly out here in the sticks there is no evidence for that claim...

About 30 years ago, when starting up a free-range egg farm I was visited by an NFU rep - he told me that to let birds out of their "safe and comfy cages" was cruel, as was denying them their "essential" diet containing a cocktail of three broad-spectrum antibiotics, and that I was an irresponsible lunatic who's flocks would undoubtedly spread disease and damnation to "responsible conventional battery-egg producers".... in fact my flocks were revoltingly healthy, and the local "factory farmers" had constant disease problems, and allowed resistance to build up thanks to their regimens....
I've heard the claims about feral swarms, and I've never seen a jot of evidence as to their veracity...