License needed to purchase Oxalic acid?

[masterBK]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...83/Guidance_for_Pharmacies_FINAL_TEMPLATE.pdf

A pharmacist beekeeper has drawn my attention to new regulations on the sale of poisons to the public that came into force in May 2015 (see above link)
On 26 May2015 the following changes were made to the Poisons Act (1972)
The new law strengthens the control of chemicals that can be used to cause harm while still allowing members of the general public with a legitimate need to continue their activities.
Licensing of Regulated Poisons and Explosives Precursors : The changes in law mean that a member of the general public can only purchase regulated poisons with a valid licence. From 26 May 2015 a member of the public wanting to purchase a regulated poison for home use will need to present a valid licence and photographic ID. The licensing requirement also applies to substances on Annex 1 of the EU regulation on the Marketing and Use of Explosives Precursors
A member of the general public wishing to obtain a licence will need to complete an online application form which can be accessed via the Gov.uk website. An explosives precursors and poisons licence will cost the applicant
£39.50 and be valid for up to 3 years. The applicant will be required to provide personal information including their current address, date of birth and details of a photographic ID and detail the type and volume of the poison they intend to purchase and its intended use

Guess what is in Annex 1 ? : Oxalic acid.
Who is going to pay £39 for a license to buy oxalic acid? Means people will be effectively limited to buying it in as Api-bioxal

 

[Hivemaker.]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=buy+oxalic+acid&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=EuppVoh1hO1q8PCpmA8

 

[masterBK]

Legislation always takes a while before people & companies become aware of it or are forced to comply so best to get some oxalic acid in now while still readily available (for cleaning wood obviously!) . Pharmacists only got the notification about it today. I imagine that many companies will stop selling it rather than go through all the procedures required (checking for valid licenses, checking ID , reporting potential dodgy people to the authorities trying to buy excessive amounts of poisons etc) to comply with the law as the product isn't a high enough value one to make it worthwhile.

 

[Finman]

.
What about all cleaning chemicals in supermarkets?. They are poisons too.

For car maintenance it may be 200 products. All poisons.

 

[Hivemaker.]

to comply with the law as the product isn't a high enough value one to make it worthwhile.

It is of major value, many thousands of tonnes are used in various industries every year.

Apibioxal is also oxalic acid.

 

[masterBK]

Finman : It is true there are lots of poisons out there but this legislation applies only to certain ones listed and just happens to include oxalic acid. I think the main aim is to restrict access to poisons and explosives by potential terrorists and other nutters as information has to be recorded on who these chemicals are sold to and how much they purchased. People with legitimate use will still be able to buy them but under tighter control.

Hivemaker: It is not about selling the stuff to industry but about selling the stuff to members of the public who would be expected to only buy small amounts.

Those with long memories will recall the withdrawel from sale of sodium Chlorate weedkiller during the IRA bombing campaign as it was being used mixed with sugar to create explosives.

Human and veterinary products are exempt so purchase of Api-bioxal doesn't require a license.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I think the main aim is to restrict access to poisons and explosives by potential terrorists and other nutters as information has to be recorded on who these chemicals are sold to and how much they purchased.

They will need to ban the selling of a lot more everyday products available in any super market or garden center in that case, as they all sell products which can be used to make very effective and devastating bombs/explosives.

They will need to ban the sale of diesel and petrol as well.

We are all too familiar with the destructive power of ammonium nitrate when mixed with gasoline or diesel fuel.

Remember the The Oklahoma City bombing.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I just checked on eBay.
When I last bought some the pages were awash with different manufacturers.
Very few now.
I agree with masterBK
Get some in.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

bollox - explosive precursors eh - that's chapatti flour, orange squash and peroxcide off the shelves then

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Guess what is in Annex 1 ? : Oxalic acid.
Who is going to pay £39 for a license to buy oxalic acid? Means people will be effectively limited to buying it in as Api-bioxal

still cheaper than buying api-bioxal

 

[masterBK]

This new law has teeth

It is an offence, incurring a penalty of up to two years imprisonment or a fine, to supply a regulated substance to a member of the public without first verifying that they have a valid home office license to acquire that substance. To confirm validity, the seller should inspect the license, checking that it is unaltered and indate, and the form of identification specified in the license should be examined. Since the photographic identification of the purchaser must be examined and must match the license, the sale can only be made to the person named.

I imagine the last line will put an end to online sales

ps JBM : hydrogen peroxide above 12% w/w is restricted as an explosive precursor under this law but you will still be able to buy the more dilute stuff if you want to pass as a blonde bombshell! (assuming you still have hair at your age)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It only has teeth if you have the mechanism to work them - can't see us FXO's having the time or the direction to go around checking shopkeepers selling the odd kilo over the counter

 

[Marton]

It's a bit more complex than it appears.

The Poisons act was amended by the deregulation act and refers to "a member of the general public".

It goes on to define that as one not connected with
his or her trade, business or profession or the performance by
him or her of a public function,


What does this mean for us. Are we public or is it our trade business profession?

Is that why the document above his beekeeping in column 2.

The detailed reference is:
3A. Activities prohibited without a licence
(1) A member of the general public commits an offence if he or she does anything listed in subsection (2) without having a licence, or a recognised non-GB licence, to do that thing with respect to that substance.
(2) The things are—
(a) importing a regulated substance,
(b) acquiring a regulated substance,
(c) possessing a regulated substance,
(d) using a regulated substance.
(3) For the purposes of this section—
(a) “acquiring” means taking into your possession, custody or control,
(b) “importing” means bringing into Great Britain from a country or territory outside the United Kingdom,
(c) “member of the general public” means an individual who is acting (alone or with others) for purposes not connected with
his or her trade, business or profession or the performance by
him or her of a public function,
(d) “possessing” means having in your possession, custody or
control, and
(e) “using” includes processing, formulating, storing, treating or
mixing, including in the production of an article.
(4) A member of the general public does not commit an offence under subsection (1) if the requirements of this section do not apply to his or her case by virtue of regulations made under section 9B.
(5) This section does not apply to the possession or use of a regulated substance at any time before 3 March 2016

 

[Hivemaker.]

What does this mean for us. Are we public or is it our trade business profession?

You are not required to have an EPP licence if you import, acquire, use or possess the substances listed in a business or professional capacity.

https://eforms.homeoffice.gov.uk/outreach/epp-licence-new-guidance.ofml

Thymol may also be illegal .....Phenol.

 

[beebot]

https://eforms.homeoffice.gov.uk/outreach/epp-licence-new-guidance.ofml

Thymol may also be illegal .....Phenol.

Although related these are different substances. Does it say phenol related compound somewhere in your link - I could not find it if there is.

I would not dismiss this out of hand. This could come to bite us. I am OK because I can buy through chemical companies. I can see a lucrative black market trade helping my early retirement plans. But have not heard of this act but will ask the techs if they are aware.

 

[beebot]

It only has teeth if you have the mechanism to work them - can't see us FXO's having the time or the direction to go around checking shopkeepers selling the odd kilo over the counter

People who do this though know the market well enough and will charge more as there will be less people willing to sell illegally.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Legislation always takes a while before people & companies become aware of it or are forced to comply so best to get some oxalic acid in now while still readily available (for cleaning wood obviously!) . Pharmacists only got the notification about it today. I imagine that many companies will stop selling it rather than go through all the procedures required (checking for valid licenses, checking ID , reporting potential dodgy people to the authorities trying to buy excessive amounts of poisons etc) to comply with the law as the product isn't a high enough value one to make it worthwhile.

Better get some stocks in now
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oxalic-Ac...hash=item2ca5a20bd8:m:mc7onOqa5Zy-73bQgInqTHg

 

[Tom Bick]

Presumably depending on the quantity required would then determine if a licence is required.

Have always thought it strange these days that you can walk into your local hardware store and walk out with some very dangerous chemicals.

 

[For want of a better word]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdd4iMfj30

Simple children's chemistry set required to manufacture enough for the 2 hive owner.


Sugar will be the next item that requires a £39 licence!

I need to ask is this legislation driven by the manufacturers of the bee poison Apipoxall?

AND when is APHA Defra or whatever going to enforce us beekeepers to use the stuff anyway... all seems to be counter productive, and the thin end of the wedge towards registration and licencing to keep bees... even for the TBH single pollinater Monty's friends??

( Sugar powdered can also be used for varroa controll.... will need that £39 licence then!!)

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

Presumably depending on the quantity required would then determine if a licence is required.

Have always thought it strange these days that you can walk into your local hardware store and walk out with some very dangerous chemicals.

Take a break. Don't do that always.