Laurence Edwards' petition to allow the use of the word "Raw" to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey.

[Anduril]

Yes Anduril, I've read that when i was getting frustrated trying to make soft set however the main thrust of my point is that I've never had to heat honey. In fact im dreading the day OSR turns up as i dont know how to cope with it.

It is just another challenge for us!

 

[Finman]

So who's honey is rawist?

.
= biggest liar

 

[pargyle]

Perhaps there’s a business opportunity for Pargyle here - a raw’ometer. To detect rawness in a honey sample and produce a sticker showing the rawness on a coloured scale, a bit like the power rating on an electrical appliance.?

Yes ... I like that idea - I can see a nice little earner - you send me a test tube sample of your honey wrapped in a £20 note and I'll send you a certificate guaranteeing that it is Raw honey ... if you want a rawness grading then best make that two £20 notes. Stickers can be purchased at extra cost ......

 

[Bazzer]

Yes Anduril, I've read that when i was getting frustrated trying to make soft set however the main thrust of my point is that I've never had to heat honey. In fact im dreading the day OSR turns up as i dont know how to cope with it.

Saw a field of OSR near Doune last year - too close for comfort

 

[Firefly]

Thanks for the example of raw milk - a good one. Since I spent part of my life milking cows for a living and part of it as a man from the Min of Ag, you might have thought I'd have recalled it

The .gov page that explains what raw milk is also goes to some length to imply very heavily that it's nasty, dangerous stuff and you're a mug if you drink it (I've drunk plenty, of course - does that explain the poor memory?)

Some people seek out raw milk, but it's very much a minority view, and "raw" meat and, especially, chicken have very negative associations for a lot of people. When pasteurisation was first introduced there was a lot of suspicion about it, and a lot of marketing money was spent to change perception and give the word a positive spin. Inevitably, that had the effect of casting "raw" as the pantomime villain

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks for the example of raw milk - a good one. Since I spent part of my life milking cows for a living and part of it as a man from the Min of Ag, you might have thought I'd have recalled it

The .gov page that explains what raw milk is also goes to some length to imply very heavily that it's nasty, dangerous stuff and you're a mug if you drink it (I've drunk plenty, of course - does that explain the poor memory?)

Some people seek out raw milk, but it's very much a minority view, and "raw" meat and, especially, chicken have very negative associations for a lot of people. When pasteurisation was first introduced there was a lot of suspicion about it, and a lot of marketing money was spent to change perception and give the word a positive spin. Inevitably, that had the effect of casting "raw" as the pantomime villain

Maybe there's a case for advertising pasteurized honey? Having grown up during the times when milk straight from the farm was sold out of churns on a barrow into housewives own containers I remember the practice stopping on health grounds (TB) and pasteurized milk in bottles taking over. Most people went along with the idea willingly.

 

[pargyle]

Maybe there's a case for advertising pasteurized honey?

Perhaps if those who are so averse to raw were happy to support a campaign to label honey that is processed as such then there would be no need to label honey as raw ? Heated and filtered honey .. has a nice marketing ring to it don't you think or honey with all the goodness take out,,,, plenty of options

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Perhaps if those who are so averse to raw were happy to support a campaign to label honey that is processed as such then there would be no need to label honey as raw ? Heated and filtered honey .. has a nice marketing ring to it don't you think or honey with all the goodness take out,,,, plenty of options

How about the term unmolested honey instead of raw? We used to pass a farm with trays of eggs outside for self service. They had a big sign above the eggs that said "Naturally produced pure eggs from our own hens". The buzz-word possibilities for an inventive mind are limitless but don't put them on the jar labels.

 

[user 20297]

How about the term unmolested honey instead of raw? We used to pass a farm with trays of eggs outside for self service. They had a big sign above the eggs that said "Naturally produced pure eggs from our own hens". The buzz-word possibilities for an inventive mind are limitless but don't put them on the jar labels.

Yes...any word apart from"raw"; it seems many beekeepers are allergic to it.

 

[enrico]

Thanks for the example of raw milk - a good one. Since I spent part of my life milking cows for a living and part of it as a man from the Min of Ag, you might have thought I'd have recalled it

The .gov page that explains what raw milk is also goes to some length to imply very heavily that it's nasty, dangerous stuff and you're a mug if you drink it (I've drunk plenty, of course - does that explain the poor memory?)

Some people seek out raw milk, but it's very much a minority view, and "raw" meat and, especially, chicken have very negative associations for a lot of people. When pasteurisation was first introduced there was a lot of suspicion about it, and a lot of marketing money was spent to change perception and give the word a positive spin. Inevitably, that had the effect of casting "raw" as the pantomime villain

We seek it out. I drink nothing else.

 

[PeaBee]

Does anyone know if this issue has been tested in the courts? It's my understanding that at national level the Trading standards discussed raw honey in 2017 and the outcome was that the term was likely to infringe food info for consumers regs and that this was the basis for their enforcement policy. But only a court can decide on the interpretation of the law. So unless TS took BMH to court or there had been a test case that I can't find. I am guessing that they just strongly suggested he remove the term based on their interpretation of the regulations. While honey regs 2015 say what you have to put on they dont say what you can't to any large degree. so I think its probably the 2011 food info for consumers regs that they focus on and use that to deem raw misleading. It may be that there is not a need for a change in the law just a test case in the courts to test the interpretation and application of the current law. So a Raw beekeeper with deep pockets and a legal team ....

 

[Erichalfbee]

So a Raw beekeeper with deep pockets and a legal team ....

We already have those that flout the law with impunity.
Supermarkets

 

[PeaBee]

I can't say I have noticed Raw honey in a supermarket but have not looked that hard. If there was and someone complained then TS would have to investigate it and depending on their interpretation of the 2011 regs could take the same action they took against BMH (issue of a notice or informal action? Not sure what action happened). It would first require a complaint (TS that I know are pretty busy dealing with illegal tobacco, booze and things that pose a risk to health to proactively look at honey labels) and that the TS dealing with it have the same interpretation as the ones BMH had issues with. To complicate it supermarkets have primary authority agreements with specific councils so it maybe that the local council would not deal with but one who has a relationship with the company.
Until a court make a ruling it is going to be a varied approach based on interpretation (and local resources). I guess that as Beekeepers are probably the only ones that notice raw and know the issues it will only be beekeepers that raise complaints. Unfortunately as a group we seem to complain to the authorities about each other far more than we do about imports and big companies.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When pasteurisation was first introduced there was a lot of suspicion about it, and a lot of marketing money was spent to change perception and give the word a positive spin. Inevitably, that had the effect of casting "raw" as the pantomime villain

And thanks to pasteurisation, strict testing TB testing of herds and better social housing/living conditions TB was morre or less eradicated in the UK.
I remember finding a box of old milk bottle tops in the loft of my uncle's farm outbuildings (they used to bottle and sell their own milk back in the 50's and early 60's) each top was marked ATT which, my father explained to me, the TT meant the herd had been tuberculin tested and TB free, the A meant the milking and processing facilities had been given an 'A' grade.
Unfortunately, another symptom of the rabble of shysters we've now in charge, means TB is rearing it's ugly head again.

 

[Repwoc]

I can't say I have noticed Raw honey in a supermarket

Here's one:

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/honey/odysea-pine---fir-tree-honey-250g
Shall we complain to TS?

 

[Finman]

Here's one:

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/honey/odysea-pine---fir-tree-honey-250g
Shall we complain to TS?

They cannot sell it in EU. But Britain wants it.

 

[PeaBee]

Good spot. Yes you (and others) could complain it makes the same claims as BMH did so could be interpreted by TS to breach the same regulations. If you raise it as a complaint to you local TS they will most likely pass it to the council with the primary authority relationship with sainsbury's for investigation and any action. The regulations that it is likely to infringe are article 7 (1)c Retained EC regulation 1169/2011. Food information for consumers.
Sure we would be interested to hear the response

 

[Erichalfbee]

I avoided my BCG at school. Having a surname beginning with Z I was at the end of a very long queue and by the time I got near the front I’d watched too many people squeal and faint so I ran away.
At Vet school we were all tested before starting clinical work. There was a high proportion of positive tests in students from dairy farms.
These days TB in the UK has begun to rise due to a combination of factors. These include increased migration of people from areas of the world where TB is more common than in the UK and the increased mobility of the UK population. An ageing population and the emergence of HIV and antibiotic resistance have also added to this increase.

 

[user 20297]

Here's one:

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/honey/odysea-pine---fir-tree-honey-250g
Shall we complain to TS?

Wow....that's a marketing phrase I want on my honey, "sheer sexiness".

I don't suppose that a photo of me would help?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Wow....that's a marketing phrase I want on my honey, "sheer sexiness".

I don't suppose that a photo of me would help?

Our raw honey has received multiple 2-star awards from The Great Taste Awards where judges commented "A luscious dark golden colour with a gorgeous waxy consistency. We loved the subtle pine and fir flavours, the perfect level of sweetness, the hint of saltiness, the sheer sexiness of this honey.