Latest varroa researches

[For want of a better word]

To start the ball rolling........perhaps they survive because of the SIE of type B and not because of the claimed hygienic behavior. They could have, for example, claimed they survived because they used a Bee gym or a flea bay CD back scratcher or stood their hives on Lie Lines. Their (SHCG) science is not convincing nor accurate. For instance they call Deformed Wing Virus, Damaged wing virus. Hummmm.

Does this survival also equate with desirable characteristics wanted by beekeepers, like docility, honey yields etc?

Nothing wrong in a belief system... I rather like the idea of Ley Lines.... possibly your spells ckeckker has gone tits up Grayling Man???

Nos da

 

[Thymallus]

Nothing wrong in a belief system... I rather like the idea of Ley Lines.... possibly your spells ckeckker has gone tits up Grayling Man???

Nos da

Nah.... my little confused Welsh Cornish Pixie, Lie lines is far more accurate description in my opinion...

 

[Finman]

.
Ley lines are perhaps a reason to poorly mated queens.

Best are native lay lines.
.

 

[pargyle]

Swindon Honeybee Conservation Group (SHCG) research...not the paper. Read my post again and the one before it (the clue was in brackets (SHCG).....then read their web site where DWV= Damaged Wing virus......apologies will be accepted

Well ... I'm ready to be corrected but my understanding is that Ron Hoskins and the SHCG bred the bees which had already exhibited hygienic behaviour (Ron has apparently been heading in this direction for 20 years .. breeding selectively by AI .. so he could hardly NOT know what he's doing !) and ... he's been keeping bees longer than Finman ... well ...until Finnie extends his time line again ...

But ... the study of the bees in relation to DWV was not done by SHCG ... it was led by Declan Shroeder .. I really hope that you are not pooing on his credentials ?

https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=isJrudYAAAAJ&hl=en

 

[midnight sun]

Good post Finman. Thanks

 

[Thymallus]

Well ... I'm ready to be corrected but my understanding is that Ron Hoskins and the SHCG bred the bees which had already exhibited hygienic behaviour (Ron has apparently been heading in this direction for 20 years .. breeding selectively by AI .. so he could hardly NOT know what he's doing !) and ... he's been keeping bees longer than Finman ... well ...until Finnie extends his time line again ...

But ... the study of the bees in relation to DWV was not done by SHCG ... it was led by Declan Shroeder .. I really hope that you are not pooing on his credentials ?

Does playing the village idiot come naturally to you?

R.Hoskins definition of hygienic bees seems to be based solely on bits of bees he finds on the varroa floors (see his web site and read it!) and according to his web site suffer from damaged wing virus! By his web site I'm referring to Hoskins web site...hope that hasn't confused you too much.

At no time have I criticised the scientific paper or it's authors. Their findings are quite intriguing and possibly provide a rational explanation why Hoskins bees have survived DESPITE his claims of them surviving by being hygienic. They (being paper by Schroeder) don't mention hygienic bees simply bees from Swinton Apiaries.
B+ can tell what tests you need to perform to determine hygienic behavior in bees far better than myself.

How disingenuous of you to try to imply I impugned the original scientific paper.
Not sure a simple apology will do
Grovelling may help.......

 

[pargyle]

Does playing the village idiot come naturally to you?

R.Hoskins definition of hygienic bees seems to be based solely on bits of bees he finds on the varroa floors (see his web site and read it!) and according to his web site suffer from damaged wing virus! By his web site I'm referring to Hoskins web site...hope that hasn't confused you too much.

You would be surprised at the 'village diots' that I have learned from in the past .. if that's the tag that fits me I'm happy to wear it ...

I still don't see how you can separate Ron Hoskins' bees from the research paper ... Ron has been saying .. for some time it seems .. that his bees are surviving the effects of varroa in the hive without treatment .. and his observations are there are signs on his inspection boards of immature varroa, bits of bee larvae, and mites that have clearly been damaged.

It's not a massive leap of faith to come to the conclusion that his bees were behaving in a hygienic manner ... I really don't see what your problem with this is. B+ is selectively breeding for hygienic bees and I understand the 'tests' that he does to measure whether the colonies are good breeding stock. It is entirely possible (and I'm sure B+ can confirm) that his hygienic bees may well produce the same sort of hive debris ?

The issue of resistance to DWV in Ron's bees is a bit chicken and egg isn't it ? Did the secondary strain of the virus develop because the Bees evolved or did the bees survive because the virus evolved ...

And frankly, despite your ponderous academic posturing ... DOES IT MATTER ? ... Like me, John Harding and a dozen or so beekeepers that I know - he has bees that are surviving without treatment .. and that's something that just about every beekeeper in the country would be grateful for ... the only people lamenting would be those with shares in the companies that make the varroacides ...

 

[Thymallus]

I still don't see how you can separate Ron Hoskins' bees from the research paper ... Ron has been saying .. for some time it seems .. that his bees are surviving the effects of varroa in the hive without treatment ..

No, No, No. You simply do not get it!

I wrote a nice explanation out for you then decided life is too short and erased it all. I thought why bother wasting any more time, you will believe whatever you wish to believe about what I wrote, despite your erroneous assumptions.
Shame really, is was nice and readable, almost monosyllabic.
Never mind

Damaged wing viruses to you!

And Yes it does bloody matter what is really going on. To me anyway.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

For those who have not read the academic paper, the gist of it is on this video, from the BBC: https://www.facebook.com/beethechange.heathershoneybees/videos/641264936011359/

I'd be interested to find out if the DWV type B virus developed as a result of hygienic behaviour or whether the hygienic behaviour resulted from the altered virus type B. What is needed is more research on other bees that are untreated with chemicals to see if they have DWV type B and whether or not they are "hygienic". Step forward Pargyle!

Infecting bees with the type B virus may well prove to be a way forward.

As an aside, it's good to see the BBKA involved in the funding of some of this research.

CVB

 

[beebot]

And Yes it does bloody matter what is really going on. To me anyway.

And to me!!! It a little fundamental really.

 

[beebot]

You would be surprised at the 'village diots' that I have learned from in the past .. if that's the tag that fits me I'm happy to wear it ...

I still don't see how you can separate Ron Hoskins' bees from the research paper ... Ron has been saying .. for some time it seems .. that his bees are surviving the effects of varroa in the hive without treatment .. and his observations are there are signs on his inspection boards of immature varroa, bits of bee larvae, and mites that have clearly been damaged.

It's not a massive leap of faith to come to the conclusion that his bees were behaving in a hygienic manner ... I really don't see what your problem with this is. B+ is selectively breeding for hygienic bees and I understand the 'tests' that he does to measure whether the colonies are good breeding stock. It is entirely possible (and I'm sure B+ can confirm) that his hygienic bees may well produce the same sort of hive debris ?

The issue of resistance to DWV in Ron's bees is a bit chicken and egg isn't it ? Did the secondary strain of the virus develop because the Bees evolved or did the bees survive because the virus evolved ...

And frankly, despite your ponderous academic posturing ... DOES IT MATTER ? ... Like me, John Harding and a dozen or so beekeepers that I know - he has bees that are surviving without treatment .. and that's something that just about every beekeeper in the country would be grateful for ... the only people lamenting would be those with shares in the companies that make the varroacides ...

I not sure you understand the nuances here.

 

[beebot]

Infecting bees with the type B virus may well prove to be a way forward.

Certainly worth a closer look (but there may be downsides).



(

 

[pargyle]

I not sure you understand the nuances here.

I'm a Yorkshireman - I don't do Nuance ... Particularly when it's put forward by a Nuance and his acolyte ... or sycophant if you prefer it.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I'm a Yorkshireman - I don't do Nuance ... Particularly when it's put forward by a Nuance and his acolyte ... or sycophant if you prefer it.

CVB

 

[Finman]

.

Who is Ron Hoskins? ... A scientis?

According Daily Mail Hotkins was 5 years ago 79 y old beekeeper, who has found that ONE of his hives had fewer mites than other hives.

Hotkins had made a breakthrough in global disappearing disease of bees....

Our beekeeper researcher had one hive, which had not mites at all. Then the hive died, and so died the solution of global problem.

As I know very well, every British village has a of 80 y old village dedective and so famous, that they are in TV once a week. And now time is rippen, that every village may have in future a varroa researcher. And think about global affects.

But sun rises from East

.
.

 

[Finman]

.
B+ has varroa tolerant bees, but we must wait a while, that he achieves an mythical age of 79 year. I suppose that I will not see that day when a myth B+ is in TV.

Perhaps at same time we can then celebrate 50 th anniversary of bees' disappearing.

We have other myth candidates in this forum too.
.

 

[Finman]

.
In Finland we do not use to have mythical old persons of villages, but we have a myth called a Blond Lady.

Once a Blonde was looking a notice in street light post: Apartment for rent. Blonde knocked the post, but nobody opened.

Police passed the place and wondered, what is going on. He stopped and asked from lady, can I help you, Miss?
- Here is a apartment for rent. I have knocked the door, but no one opens
- Police said: At least there is somebody at home, because the light is on.

 

[B+.]

It's not a massive leap of faith to come to the conclusion that his bees were behaving in a hygienic manner ... I really don't see what your problem with this is. B+ is selectively breeding for hygienic bees and I understand the 'tests' that he does to measure whether the colonies are good breeding stock. It is entirely possible (and I'm sure B+ can confirm) that his hygienic bees may well produce the same sort of hive debris ?.

There is no secret about what I am doing. It is all described here http://www.toleranzzucht.de/zuchtprogramm/methodenhandbuch/. I didn't invent any of it. They've been doing this in Germany for years. Anyone can do it. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if others are doing it but just not talking about it so openly.

We seem to have this fear that our bees will all die if we don't apply the latest "treatment" but bees have survived without our help for millions of years. I ask you to consider whether we are doing the bees any favours by keeping weak colonies alive and allowing them to pass on their genes. Isn't this just diminishing the vitality that nature demands?

 

[B+.]

.
I suppose that I will not see that day when a myth B+ is in TV.

Thank you Finman but I have no wish to appear on TV.

 

[For want of a better word]

For those who have not read the academic paper, the gist of it is on this video, from the BBC: https://www.facebook.com/beethechange.heathershoneybees/videos/641264936011359/

I'd be interested to find out if the DWV type B virus developed as a result of hygienic behaviour or whether the hygienic behaviour resulted from the altered virus type B. What is needed is more research on other bees that are untreated with chemicals to see if they have DWV type B and whether or not they are "hygienic". Step forward Pargyle!

Infecting bees with the type B virus may well prove to be a way forward.

As an aside, it's good to see the BBKA involved in the funding of some of this research.

CVB

One day perhaps "Chemical T" and his acid dribbling cronies will realise a rigorous and holistic scientific approach... where ever that lead may come from is... indeed the proper way forward in IPC.

Mytten da