keeping a swarm from going

[oliver90owner]

I lost a huge swarm today.

Huge is apparently subjective. A huge swarm, to me, would not fit in a deep National nuc box and may need more than a National deep to accomodate it.

Almost certainly a cast and they did not like the accommodation offered. What it was that they did not find to their liking could be one or more of several features. It may just have been that there was a better site somewhere.

 

[juanito]

Greetings from thundery spain,
the way I see it is that people seem to get confused with Prime and Primary,

 

[stucat]

Thanks, JBM; that makes perfect sense to me - some of the talk above along the lines of "Prime, as in beef" did not - so the Prime or FIRST swarm will (given Mobius-style caveats / semantics) in the absence of external interference contain a mated Q. (Rather than the prime/"best" swarm is the one with the mated Q). But we have no Supreme Court, unless we appoint ourselves thus...

And since in the case of a clipped queen and a failed prime swarm, the virgin queen would likely leave with a slightly larger swarm and therefore by definition could not be a cast swarm as a cast is smaller than the largest prime swarm.
In short, everybody was wrong as this unnatural scenario is neither cast nor prime completely and probably deserves a term of its own.

 

[stucat]

I lost a huge swarm today. They left a few days ago and got them back. Next morning gone again. Collected them yesterday and put them in a nuc but probably a bit small but running out of equipment.
My question is: Were the frames wrong or nuc wrong?
First attempt was on drawn comb that had been extracted last week but left for bees to clean up. They didn't stay.
Second attempt was in a spare nuc with new wax foundation and still the left. Gone for good now as no where to be seen.

Bees swarm to find more space, they'll not be happy crammed into a nuc(which is roughly half the size of box prefered by swarms and feels even smaller to the bees when you fill it with frames/comp)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And since in the case of a clipped queen and a failed prime swarm, the virgin queen would likely leave with a slightly larger swarm and therefore by definition could not be a cast swarm as a cast is smaller than the largest prime swarm.

sorry, totally twisted logic - how do you work that out? if anything the swarm may be the same size as the original prime, but point me to the 'rule' which says the cast must be smaller than the prime

 

[steve56616]

Bees swarm to find more space, they'll not be happy crammed into a nuc(which is roughly half the size of box prefered by swarms and feels even smaller to the bees when you fill it with frames/comp)

I understand bees swarm to find space, however, my bait nuc in the garden had a large swarm arrive last week and filled all frames so they where happy with a smaller home.
Regarding prime swarms, it was my marked 2014 queen so I assumed it was a prime swarm and not a cast. Maybe im wrong...probably lol

 

[andyphibb]

If they have moved in (rather than you putting them in) they are most likely to stay, I'm with Gilberdyke John no QE necessary, as for feeding if you are using fondation then give them a feed or two to get them wax building.

 

[stucat]

sorry, totally twisted logic - how do you work that out? if anything the swarm may be the same size as the original prime, but point me to the 'rule' which says the cast must be smaller than the prime

Johnnybeegood and mike T both give definitions on pages 3 and 6 of this thread and both defi itions include that a cast swarm is smaller.
A hive swarms because it is growing, it grows in the days that follow a failed prime swarm and therefore the later swarm will be larger and therefore by definition not a true cast.
Now do you see the point ? There are 2 factors in the definitions, size and mating status both equally valid.
We don't call a mated queen leaving a hive alone a prime swarm do we? So size is clearly relevant.

 

[MikeT]

Stucat

It is generally agreed that a:-

Prime swarm is headed by a mated laying queen irrespective of the size of the swarm, (it is usually larger than a cast as it generally leaves the hive first)

A Cast Swarm or secondary swarm is headed by a unmated virgin Queen, (it is usually much smaller than a prime swarm).

Mike

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Johnnybeegood and mike T both give definitions on pages 3 and 6 of this thread and both defi itions include that a cast swarm is smaller.
A hive swarms because it is growing, it grows in the days that follow a failed prime swarm and therefore the later swarm will be larger and therefore by definition not a true cast.
Now do you see the point ? There are 2 factors in the definitions, size and mating status both equally valid.
We don't call a mated queen leaving a hive alone a prime swarm do we? So size is clearly relevant.

For one thing we know that jonnybegood is an idiot but again you are another who is naively obsessed with size. Once more for those who can't see the facts staring them in the face forget size forget the tripe spoken on here by JBG

A PRIME SWARM IS HEADED BY A MATED QUEEN - PERIOD!!

 

[oliver90owner]

you are another-

I was wondering if the new poster only joined after the ban, and if so whether there was a connection..... or whether he is related in some way to the late JBG.

Perhaps someone is even on holiday on Anglesey? New posters tend not to join in arguments such as on this thread ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Gwn I os ydy'r ffwrch Bach yn daeall cymraeg?

 

[stucat]

That's fine just keep ignoring half the definition, shouting at people and calling them idiots.
One day you may actually be right but given your attitude, I highly doubt anyone will be listening.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Think you hit the nail on the head RAB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's fine just keep ignoring half the definition, shouting at people and calling them idiots.
One day you may actually be right but given your attitude, I highly doubt anyone will be listening.

I didn't call everyone an idiot just you JBG

 

[stucat]

you are another-

I was wondering if the new poster only joined after the ban, and if so whether there was a connection..... or whether he is related in some way to the late JBG.

Perhaps someone is even on holiday on Anglesey? New posters tend not to join in arguments such as on this thread ...

I can recommend a therapist for your paranoia.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I can recommend a therapist for your paranoia.

Well, he has a point it's a heck of a coincidence that two people with such an amazing talent for f#ckwittery have taken such an interest in the same thread

 

[pargyle]

Another candidate for the sin bin I think ... could be another new record ... less than 10 posts and a ban ???

 

[MikeT]

I am right this is JBG in incognito., He must be using a computer and not his smartphone, as no typos, he did admit to having large fingers.

JBG how have you managed to access the forum?

 

[stucat]

I didn't call everyone an idiot just you JBG

And I didn't say you called " everyone" an idiot
Try correcting something I actually wrote.