keeping a swarm from going

[pargyle]

The natural swarm you refer to could be led by a Queen that wont lay for weeks which was why i first posted, funny how your all frightened to have a go at oliver for getting it wrong but all jump on the bash a newbie bandwagon, oh by the way bjb......

If everyone except you is out of step (in your opinion) ... then perhaps you need to ask yourself whether it's actually you that's out of step and everyone else is ... Durrrr.. In step ?

 

[jonnybeegood]

If everyone except you is out of step (in your opinion) ... then perhaps you need to ask yourself whether it's actually you that's out of step and everyone else is ... Durrrr.. In step ?

Its a bit like fred astaire & pans people trying to keep up

 

[snelgrove]

I ain't one for arguments, but in my experience and I stress my experience a prime swarm is a swarm with a mated queen. A cast swarm contains a virgin . if a swarm issues for the first time with a virgin queen then it is still a cast. Yes this swarm may contain multiple virgins. I no where you are coming from, first swarm is a prime swarm, but we need to stick to what is taught throughout beekeeping otherwise begginers will be totally confused, I mean more confused.

 

[Stiffy]

I ain't one for arguments, but in my experience and I stress my experience a prime swarm is a swarm with a mated queen. A cast swarm contains a virgin . if a swarm issues for the first time with a virgin queen then it is still a cast. Yes this swarm may contain multiple virgins. I no where you are coming from, first swarm is a prime swarm, but we need to stick to what is taught throughout beekeeping otherwise begginers will be totally confused, I mean more confused.

That's exactly how I was taught and have always referred to swarms, seems pretty obvious to me.
I try to think how the ' old beeks' would have used the term.
A prime with a mated queen would give them a 'prime' chance of a good crop i.e. she is mated
A cast is the newly emerged queen being 'cast' out and may or may not give a good crop i.e. She needs to mate.
As my wife keeps telling me size doesn't matter !
S


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[snelgrove]

That's exactly how I was taught and have always referred to swarms, seems pretty obvious to me.
I try to think how the ' old beeks' would have used the term.
A prime with a mated queen would give them a 'prime' chance of a good crop i.e. she is mated
A cast is the newly emerged queen being 'cast' out and may or may not give a good crop i.e. She needs to mate.
As my wife keeps telling me size doesn't matter !
S


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BeeJayBee]

The natural swarm you refer to could be led by a Queen that wont lay for weeks which was why i first posted, funny how your all frightened to have a go at oliver for getting it wrong but all jump on the bash a newbie bandwagon,

The natural swarm I referred to would be unlikely to be led by a queen that won't lay for weeks because it would be a prime swarm, which contains a mated queen.

A prime swarm contains the mated queen that will have laid the fertilized egg(s) develops to produce her successor, or successors. Those successors will still be in their capped queen cells when the prime swarm leaves the colony's nest site and, if the remaining colony decides, then one or more of those newly emerged virgin queens would be included in a cast swarm - she will be unmated, but able to fly.

How many times do you have to be told the same thing?

I am beginning to wonder if this smilie would be more appropriate than your current avatar.

 

[dpearce4]

******

 

[user 6228]

******

So it is snowing down in Sussex

 

[dpearce4]

So it is snowing down in Sussex

lol nothing would surprise me with the weather this year

 

[jonnybeegood]

The natural swarm I referred to would be unlikely to be led by a queen that won't lay for weeks because it would be a prime swarm, which contains a mated queen.

A prime swarm contains the mated queen that will have laid the fertilized egg(s) develops to produce her successor, or successors. Those successors will still be in their capped queen cells when the prime swarm leaves the colony's nest site and, if the remaining colony decides, then one or more of those newly emerged virgin queens would be included in a cast swarm - she will be unmated, but able to fly.

How many times do you have to be told the same thing?

I am beginning to wonder if this smilie would be more appropriate than your current avatar.

No, how many times do YOU have to be told????
Yes queen lays eggs, then queen is removed from hive & put into a nuc because some of those eggs are now Queen cells, Queen cell hatches & swarms with half of the bees either before mating or after, either way its a prime swarm, please read all the posts before commenting then maybe you will know what i'm talking about?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No, how many times do YOU have to be told????
Yes queen lays eggs, then queen is removed from hive & put into a nuc because some of those eggs are now Queen cells, Queen cell hatches & swarms with half of the bees either before mating or after, either way its a prime swarm, please read all the posts before commenting then maybe you will know what i'm talking about?

I know exctly what you're talking about - a load of tripe why don't you just shut up you irritating little cachgu. I'm convinced you would start a fight in an empty room if you couldn't find anyone else to wind up!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In the maneuvre you just described you have just simulated a prime swarm by taking the queen away. It's not called a nuced queen artificial swarm by chance. Thus the first emerged virgin to swarm is still a cast you silly fool

 

[jonnybeegood]

I know exctly what you're talking about - a load of tripe why don't you just shut up you irritating little cachgu. I'm convinced you would start a fight in an empty room if you couldn't find anyone else to wind up!

Aw bollox to you you welsh idiot!

 

[MikeT]

I wasn't going to get involved in this one, but I have checked some of my books, some date back to 1930s and the old MAFF bulletins. They all state as follows.

A prime swarm is a large swarm with a mated queen who has been laying eggs. She is starved for a few days before the swarm emerges to make her fly better.

A cast is a secondary swarm (smaller than a primary swarm) with an unmated "virgin" queen.

I was also taught this by my Old Rural Science Teacher, who in the 1960s was regarded as the authority on beekeeping in Wiltshire.

So Jonny I think eating some humble pie is required as you are totally wrong and an apology to the learned Beeks who have tried to correct your mistake, and received abuse from you in return.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I wasn't going to get involved in this one, but I have checked some of my books, some date back to 1930s and the old MAFF bulletins. They all state as follows.

A prime swarm is a large swarm with a mated queen who has been laying eggs. She is starved for a few days before the swarm emerges to make her fly better.

A cast is a secondary swarm (smaller than a primary swarm) with an unmated "virgin" queen.

I was also taught this by my Old Rural Science Teacher, who in the 1960s was regarded as the authority on beekeeping in Wiltshire.

So Jonny I think eating some humble pie is required as you are totally wrong and an apology to the learned Beeks who have tried to correct your mistake, and received abuse from you in return.

Are you having a laugh? They have received abuse? Come on mike, dont lower yourself, i think the welsh bandwagon is full now? My point for the umpteenth time was oliver was wrong, the op's post could have been a swarm with a virgin or even a mated queen which wouldnt lay for weeks, i know you guys worship him, sorry, i can live without him no problem. He was wrong, read the posts again & grow up folks!

 

[pargyle]

Are you having a laugh? They have received abuse? Come on mike, dont lower yourself, i think the welsh bandwagon is full now? My point for the umpteenth time was oliver was wrong, the op's post could have been a swarm with a virgin or even a mated queen which wouldnt lay for weeks, i know you guys worship him, sorry, i can live without him no problem. He was wrong, read the posts again & grow up folks!

Once and for all ... RAB's Post is correct:

"I see no indication of size of swarm, nor whether the 'airing' hive parts were fitted with a crown board, or when they actually took up residence.

If a prime, she will be laying very shortly, if not already. They will have started building comb from whatever is their ceiling - the crownboard or the roof!

If a cast has been resident more than a couple days, she is likely to need to go out to mate, so that Q/E really needs to come off - as you don't know how old the virgin actually is. She is obviously old enough to fly and the cast swarm may have been hanging around a couple days before taking up residence. Today looks like a good mating day.

Inspection should be revealing. If a large prime, expect a deal of reorganisation being needed. If a small cast, they may be huddled in the warmest corner and ignoring the frames.

Treat the comb carefully as they may abscond if it ends up on the floor and may encourage robbing (particularly with an OMF).

Not feeding for the first three days forces the bees to use up their honey brought from the old hive, thereby reducing the risk of pathogens being fed to larvae (particularly brood diseases). "

Your post in response is carp:

""If a prime, she will be laying very shortly,"?
Not nescesserily, it could be a prime swarm with a virgin queen, if the original Q was removed & a Q cell missed the prime swarm would have a virgin or maybe a mated Q & Imay not lay for weeks? "

How many people do you need to tell you that you are WRONG ???? Before you accept that you ARE wrong !

Looks like he won't hear me then ..... Just noticed he's displaying the solitary confinement flag again .. He now equals my record of two episodes of confinement .. and is rapidly heading for Finman's total .... well at least on this forum anyway !!

 

[td4bees]

cast caste swarm

Isnt a prime swarm the one that goes first taking half the bees, thats how i understand it, the rest are castes after that. The main swarm may not have a mated Queen back!

jonnybeegood if some one told you that the frost was all over, would you think it was gone, or would you think it was every where.

 

[Obee1]

Pargyle
There's a solitary confinement flag? Must say surprised that you ever had to fly it! Finny, not so much of a surprise! (sorry finny)

Btw assume banned means he can't post but he could still read the forum as no log in required

 

[user 6228]

We had one colony which swarmed and casted and the mated queen was in the second one, as this cast was laying inside 48 hrs. Very unusual, an early lesson that with bees, the unexpected can happen.

 

[Heather]

When I indicated a queen excluder under the brood box it was only for 2 days to nail the swarm down to working on the comb!! Surely no-one thought permanent. And a virgin will wait two days.

As said .. prime swarm.. what's the problem?? she has been out prior to swarm-mated- laying...