Is Trump really that dumb ?

[pargyle]

Having watched, with horror, the most powerful man and his lickspittle, Vance, mug and then violate the most courageous leader currently on the planet, I was left with the feeling that I am embarrassed for the many American friends I have. How can over half of the USA people, who voted, have let this ignorant, arrogant, uneducated, lying, bully get in for a second term ? How must many of these people now be feeling ? When I consider the great american presidents of the past - even the worst of them was head and shoulders above this horrible, petulant, vindictive, man.

There are rumblings in some sectors of the USA:



But, it is clear that the only world leaders rejoicing at what has happened are those dictators and despots that the planet could do without.

It is clear to me that we are on the brink of a new world order, the 'special relationship' we have with the USA, at the highest level, is dead - NATO is now Not A Trump Obligation and Europe (including the UK) is going to have to step up and face Putin down. Apart from the Cuban missile crisis (Which I remember vividly as a 12 year old) I don't think there has ever been a more critical time in Europe and the world in general. Largely brought about by the most powerful man in the world apparently, aided and abetted by a nebula of like-minded, self-serving, acolytes unable or unwilling to call out his lies and ignorance.

I hope we see, today, a strong and collective support for Ukraine from the EU leaders assembling in Downing Street - UKraine hold the front line for us in Europe and whllst we may no longer be part of the EU we are part of the greater Europe - we are all at risk from Putin's ambitions - now, it would seem, endorsed by the man I can barely manage to name.

There are several petitions seeking to prevent a second State visit - I would prefer to see it go ahead, sooner rather than later, with the Mall lined with Ukraine flags and millions of people lining the route all holding Ukraine flags with their backs to him and the entourage.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How can over half of the USA people, who voted, have let this ignorant, arrogant, uneducated, lying, bully get in for a second term

That's what happens when the great unwashed feel disnefranchised, much like this country when the 'other option' is no different to the incumbent they will be taken in by the weasel words of the far right or fascist demagogue who finds an 'other' (be it disabled, Latino, Islamic, Jewish or just 'brown') to target their hate on and promises them all whatever it is they feel they need from cheaper petrol, cheaper utilities or indeed cheaper eggs!

 

[JamezF]

Sadly I get the impression that there is a sizeable proportion of the population who continue support what Trump is doing. I find it very depressing, but I'm not sure where the solution lies. I suspect Europe (including the UK) will have to step up to the plate as regards replacing US support for Ukraine and that's probably going to hurt all of us to some extent, including the US.

At this point I wouldn't bet against Trump trying to play Zelensky and Putin off against each other to try to get the result that he perceives as the most beneficial to him, and if that happens to increase or prolong the suffering of foreigners halfway around the world then why should he care?

In more general terms I wonder if there aren't an awful lot of people (not just in the US) who are wondering if they can just sit tight for the next four years and hope that things will improve afterwards. It's only four years (less six weeks now, but who is counting? ), after all. On the other hand, a lot can happen in four years and I'd not even bet against Trump trying to repeal the 22nd Amendment so he can run for another term.

James

 

[Parsonage Bees]

The 'Rest is Politics' and 'Rest is Politics US' podcasts, also on YouTube, were good yesterday in response.
Couldn't take my eyes off Zelensky. Despite Trump and Vance goading him with insults he stayed logical and got some digs in of his own like "Three days. I heard that from Putin" and "you have a nice ocean". Amazing guy.

Rory Stewart on RIP podcast was chilling with his prediction of what might happen if the US withdraws their air defence systems. Russia's planes and helicopters can attack freely and they overtake Ukraine and probably Moldova. Europe has no resources to replace the gap left by the US in the next few years.

Even if Trump steps down the Trumplican party with the help of it's billionaires will probably win again. We have to move on without them. Paying for it via cuts and taxes on the average person not the way. Wealth tax.

State visit? I don't care. What are the royals for anyway.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What are the royals for anyway

Well someone has to lend support to paedophiles and tax dodgers
And the forelock tuggers have to have someone to grovel to
Freeloading tax dodging gaslighting parasites the bloody lot of them

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Well someone has to lend support to paedophiles and tax dodgers
And the forelock tuggers have to have someone to grovel to
Freeloading tax dodging gaslighting parasites the bloody lot of them

Steady! They're just rich people with pretty clothes and houses.

 

[rossbyjove]

The 'Rest is Politics' and 'Rest is Politics US' podcasts, also on YouTube, were good yesterday in response.
Couldn't take my eyes off Zelensky. Despite Trump and Vance goading him with insults he stayed logical and got some digs in of his own like "Three days. I heard that from Putin" and "you have a nice ocean". Amazing guy.

Rory Stewart on RIP podcast was chilling with his prediction of what might happen if the US withdraws their air defence systems. Russia's planes and helicopters can attack freely and they overtake Ukraine and probably Moldova. Europe has no resources to replace the gap left by the US in the next few years.

Even if Trump steps down the Trumplican party with the help of it's billionaires will probably win again. We have to move on without them. Paying for it via cuts and taxes on the average person not the way. Wealth tax.

State visit? I don't care. What are the royals for anyway.

No idea what maps they look at.
They do not even have an ocean.
Bering straits are about 60 miles wide.
I was asked to sign a no state visit petition did not bother.
No 'interest' in royals or Trump.
Not like anyone signing would be lining the roads for any other visit !

 

[Parsonage Bees]

I was asked to sign a no state visit petition did not bother.

Look at all the petitions and marches for the Palestinians. What use have they been other than to the people taking part perhaps.
You have to throw soup on the Mona Lisa or glue yourself to the M25 to get any recognition, let alone response.

#edit
Just watched the video at the top. Hadn't heard the Robert Peston question to Trump, " . . . will you apologize to Zelensky. . .dictator . .. . Putin actual dictator . . . . .". Well played Sir!. Never getting into the White House ever again.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hugely sadly I can see Ukraine being sacrificed before Europe re arms and people do see the precipice we teeter on. How do we pay for all this? Abandon net zero and 2p on income tax?
Giving Ukraine all the Russian funds we have would be a good start. They could buy American arms which might keep Trump quiet for a while to wreak havoc elsewhere, preferably at home.
I read somewhere that it was only in 2006 that the U.K. finished paying the USA for WW2. No idea of the accuracy of that.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I read that Zelinski is meeting the king at Sandringham this weekend. That will put Trump’s nose out.
And whose idea was it for Starmer to present the state visit invitation in front of the media?

 

[JamezF]

I read somewhere that it was only in 2006 that the U.K. finished paying the USA for WW2. No idea of the accuracy of that.

The date is correct, but it wasn't specifically for WW2 because the loan wasn't made until 1950. In reality however much of it was paying for goods that the UK required and couldn't otherwise afford to buy because of what had happened during WW2 (not to mention that the country was effectively bankrupt), so it probably amounts to much the same thing.

James

 

[Podilia]

Unfortunately, I should recognize my too “great expectations” from D. Trump. I thought something like this: he is christian, his team are christians, catholics or protestants, they have certain values and therefore they call things as they are: good, bad, right, wrong, evil. The first good thing Trump has made, in my opinion, is cancelling so-called gender ideology and propaganda. I don’t judge the people who chose that life style, they can do whatever they can imagine privately, but their propaganda in schools and media is too much. That decision promised other good “traditional” decisions to make America great again and to help Americans’ friends to establish justice and peace. Instead we see something disgusting. The last freak show, starring Trump, Zelenski and Vance, was ridiculous. In my opinion D. T. makes America ridiculous. This silly business approach, the commercial style of making diplomacy and deals on people’s blood – what a shame! There are treasures on the table, not values. There are some rare earths **** which doesn’t exist in reality. I’m not a fan of Zel., didn’t voted for him, never watched his TV series and movies, but on that freak show, which I watched on Sky News, D. T. as a showman really exceeded Zel., who looked adult and sober, in stupidity. Doesn’t he understand that russi is fighting not for treasures, it’s rather the bonus, but for some irrational ideas? Their war is irrational from the beginning. You can’t fight Hitler and don’t pay attention for his ideology.

That’s not good for all, especially for Central Eastern Europe. Someone says, Trump has got a bribe from putn – $1 trillion; others say, J. D. Vance, as a future president after Trump, is involved in a “secret” project of returning russi to Central Eastern Europe, to the conditions of the Soviet power presence there. It’s terrible. It seems like they are saving russi from the total collapse again, as the US saved that ******* from hunger and collapse in 90th. For example, currently russi get 60% of artillery shells from North Korea. What a company for the US! It’d be interesting to see how D. T. could have talked with North Korean dictator who has nuclear missiles. He would probably be more respectful. We also remember how American politicians paid big money to dismantle Ukrainian advanced missiles, nuclear weapon, air forces – in the name of “partnership and peace”. The military personnel cried, TV freaks persuaded that we had nobody to fight against…

However, this is not a catastrophe yet. This world is becoming crazy, even the Pope decided stop dying and to watch how this story will end. Orwell and Kafka would have been happy to see our days. Be ready for higher prices, inflation, lower living standards – all of these we already have and this is really nothing compare to the life on the frontline. Every night russi launch up to 200 Iranian type drones to exhaust out air defense and to commit war crimes against civil population. It’s like every night evil creatures come out from the hell. During the day everything is ok.

Peace.

 

[Garry R]

Returning to the original question I feel the answer is "no - not that dumb" - he's worse than that. What he is trying to achieve I have no idea but he is going to change the values of the world and does not seem to care who or what he damages in the process.

 

[pargyle]

Unfortunately, I should recognize my too “great expectations” from D. Trump. I thought something like this: he is christian, his team are christians, catholics or protestants, they have certain values and therefore they call things as they are: good, bad, right, wrong, evil. The first good thing Trump has made, in my opinion, is cancelling so-called gender ideology and propaganda. I don’t judge the people who chose that life style, they can do whatever they can imagine privately, but their propaganda in schools and media is too much. That decision promised other good “traditional” decisions to make America great again and to help Americans’ friends to establish justice and peace. Instead we see something disgusting. The last freak show, starring Trump, Zelenski and Vance, was ridiculous. In my opinion D. T. makes America ridiculous. This silly business approach, the commercial style of making diplomacy and deals on people’s blood – what a shame! There are treasures on the table, not values. There are some rare earths **** which doesn’t exist in reality. I’m not a fan of Zel., didn’t voted for him, never watched his TV series and movies, but on that freak show, which I watched on Sky News, D. T. as a showman really exceeded Zel., who looked adult and sober, in stupidity. Doesn’t he understand that russi is fighting not for treasures, it’s rather the bonus, but for some irrational ideas? Their war is irrational from the beginning. You can’t fight Hitler and don’t pay attention for his ideology.

That’s not good for all, especially for Central Eastern Europe. Someone says, Trump has got a bribe from putn – $1 trillion; others say, J. D. Vance, as a future president after Trump, is involved in a “secret” project of returning russi to Central Eastern Europe, to the conditions of the Soviet power presence there. It’s terrible. It seems like they are saving russi from the total collapse again, as the US saved that ******* from hunger and collapse in 90th. For example, currently russi get 60% of artillery shells from North Korea. What a company for the US! It’d be interesting to see how D. T. could have talked with North Korean dictator who has nuclear missiles. He would probably be more respectful. We also remember how American politicians paid big money to dismantle Ukrainian advanced missiles, nuclear weapon, air forces – in the name of “partnership and peace”. The military personnel cried, TV freaks persuaded that we had nobody to fight against…

However, this is not a catastrophe yet. This world is becoming crazy, even the Pope decided stop dying and to watch how this story will end. Orwell and Kafka would have been happy to see our days. Be ready for higher prices, inflation, lower living standards – all of these we already have and this is really nothing compare to the life on the frontline. Every night russi launch up to 200 Iranian type drones to exhaust out air defense and to commit war crimes against civil population. It’s like every night evil creatures come out from the hell. During the day everything is ok.

Peace.

There is huge support for your country in the UK Podilla .. whatever happens with Trump I'm sure Ukraine will have the backing of the UK in your continued struggle against Putin.

 

[Karol]

Having watched, with horror, the most powerful man and his lickspittle, Vance, mug and then violate the most courageous leader currently on the planet, I was left with the feeling that I am embarrassed for the many American friends I have. How can over half of the USA people, who voted, have let this ignorant, arrogant, uneducated, lying, bully get in for a second term ? How must many of these people now be feeling ? When I consider the great american presidents of the past - even the worst of them was head and shoulders above this horrible, petulant, vindictive, man.

There are rumblings in some sectors of the USA:



But, it is clear that the only world leaders rejoicing at what has happened are those dictators and despots that the planet could do without.

It is clear to me that we are on the brink of a new world order, the 'special relationship' we have with the USA, at the highest level, is dead - NATO is now Not A Trump Obligation and Europe (including the UK) is going to have to step up and face Putin down. Apart from the Cuban missile crisis (Which I remember vividly as a 12 year old) I don't think there has ever been a more critical time in Europe and the world in general. Largely brought about by the most powerful man in the world apparently, aided and abetted by a nebula of like-minded, self-serving, acolytes unable or unwilling to call out his lies and ignorance.

I hope we see, today, a strong and collective support for Ukraine from the EU leaders assembling in Downing Street - UKraine hold the front line for us in Europe and whllst we may no longer be part of the EU we are part of the greater Europe - we are all at risk from Putin's ambitions - now, it would seem, endorsed by the man I can barely manage to name.

There are several petitions seeking to prevent a second State visit - I would prefer to see it go ahead, sooner rather than later, with the Mall lined with Ukraine flags and millions of people lining the route all holding Ukraine flags with their backs to him and the entourage.

You asked the question is Trump really that dumb?

Whilst I am far from a fan of his hubris, he is far from dumb and should not be under estimated.

One observation I will make is this. He has done more to wake Europe out of its complacent slumber than any one else since the end of WW2. Europe including the UK has wallowed in Pax America like some spoiled brat.

The Russo-Ukrainian war is a tradegy of miss calculations in part brought on by complacency. Complacency that projected weakness that Putin believed he could easily exploit.

When Putin annexed Crimea in 2014, the democrats sent blankets to Ukraine. When Trump came to office in his first term he sent the very armaments that allowed Ukraine to survive the onslaught in 2022. Were it not for Trump's actions in 2015, Ukraine would already be Putin's vassal state.

Sitting in our arm chairs in the peaceful comfort of our homes it's all too easy to judge without comprehening the complexity or enormity of the challenges of bringing peace to Ukraine.

Trump is correct. The stalemate needs to end. The question is how many more lives need to be destroyed before both sides realise it is a stalemate. With no clear winner in the conflict, what's the way forward to a lasting peace? Another 10 years of the same?

Who has the answers? Not Zelenskyy and not Putin. So, how to stop the senseless killing?

Perhaps those of you who are more intelligent than Trump can provide the answer?

 

[steve1958]

Sadly the content of News, both written and filmed can no longer be trusted..

The American and European leaders are extremely clever.
What better way to weaken an enemy than to get them to fight each other.
The Russian people living in the countries of Ukrain and Russia have been fighting each other for several years now.
Slowly using up their reserves of ammunition.
Steadily killing off their peoples,
and weakening their own economy.
Ukraine begging America and Europe for help.
Russia begging North Korea and China for help.
Whilst each day their armies dwindle in numbers as the world watches on.

 

[Podilia]

Perhaps those of you who are more intelligent than Trump can provide the answer?

Many of the media say the answer is in a suit.

- So, you are smart? Why don't you wear a business suit here, in out sacred Temple of Democracy? We told you...
- Well, I prefer Che Guevara-Fidel Castro style...
- Oh my God! You are gambling with the World War 3!

 

[pargyle]

Unfortunately we have international bullies to contend with - both of whom only listen to those they have gathererd around them that are sycophants and lickspittles. Trump and Putin are both bullies and in the end the only way to stop bullies is to confront them - if they are so strong that an individual cannot stand up to them, it needs a collective effort ... and I agree with Karol that we should, collectively, have stood up to Putin when he annexed Crimea - or at least have been prepared for a confrontation in the future. Too late now the genie is out of the bottle.

Trump, abdicating from America's position as the world's defender of democracy and world peace, has weakened the position Ukraine finds itself in and it is now up to the rest of the world's democracies to step up and fill the void left by the USA.

Putin cannot be trusted, he has shown, in the past, that what he says today can (and has in the past) change the following day. He's a liar. Trump is an opportunits AND a liar .. demanding $500b from Ukraine as 'compensation' for what ? Providing tbem with a fraction of that sum in outdated armanments and equipment stockpiled in the USA .. now reducuing the figure to $350b - still three time what they have actually provided. He wants the minerals available in Ukraine and I suspect that Putin has similar designs on them, as well as his desire to re-establish the greater USSR. It is opportunism on the back of a nation facing annilihation.

There has to be peace but only one that can be relied upon and sustained on the basis of strength - wherever that strength may come from. There will be a cost to this, for all of us, but living with the prospect of an unrestrained, expansionist, regime in Russia ? Not a situation I want my children and grandchildren to live with. We have seen this situation in the past - when Chamberlain waved a piece of paper declaring 'Peace in our time' ... there are many analogies to be drawn and we know what the consequencea were as a result. JBM is right - we should learn from history.

 

[rolande]

The reality of the modern age is that Britain is no longer the military and industrial power that it once was, this really is the time when we find out if that once much talked of 'British spirit' really is a thing now that our ability to rely on the US is very much in question. Let's hope that it is.

As for senseless killing, yes it is in the sense that the invasion of Ukraine was senseless but I'm not going to tell any of my handful of Ukrainian friends that defending their country is senseless, nor can I see how rewarding Putin with large tracts of Ukrainian land while he re arms and plots his next move is an intelligent way to stop the immediate killing.

 

[Vanterrier]

Nuff said...