Is this a sign of things to come ...

[Motobiman]

I judge them by how good their bees are. I was shocked when I saw the bees of one 'expert' I know when I saw their bees how poorly kept and weak they where.

The person I probably ask advice from the most has over a dozen strong hives, raises their own queens and harvests lots of honey. If you go to their apiary they know what's happening in each hive.

Seeing is believing with me.

Yes I'd agree with that.

Strong and active colonies early in the year appears to me to be a good indicator too.

 

[Motobiman]

We are already under DEFRA.

Yep but not thank Gxx, licenced, yet.

Don't give them ideas FHS.

 

[kazmcc]

.....he said, 'just bought 'some bees because they are in trouble' .....

They are now!

Possibly but who vets the mentors?

After my experience with a PAID mentor. Word of mouth is all very good but you don't have those contacts when you start bee keeping.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

My worry is also the hives that look to the average punter like they require no effort e.g. the flow hive.

If people start keeping bees not realizing they need regular tending and knowledge these colonies could start acting as typhoid Marys and taint us all.

BTW, I wouldn't mind a small licencing fee.

Isn't the annual association membership fee enough already? For mine I get automatic registration on beebase, insurance, group purchasing benefits for 1lb jars with lids, foundation, social activities and mutual assistance. Don't get government involved with all the usual jobsworth nonsense and ever escalating costs/interference.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I suggested he put a top entrance in so drones could get out but that got nowhere.

 

[madasafish]

Sort of back to the original topic ..
Apart from recommending Hooper and/or the Haynes manual to newbies (Hooper can be a bit heavy going and takes 2-3 readings over several months with some hands on in-between)
I make them learn 2 rules
1) Bees don't read books
2) Put 3 beekeepers in a room, ask them a question, and get six opinions.

I thankfully had a couple of good teachers, one who'd been keeping bees for 40 years and the other an SBI. I also bother to listen and read this forum on a regular basis (it's much better and more active than the BBKA one).

As to clipping queens, I choose not to.. if I lose a swarm so be it. And yes I am a swarm collector...

But the issue is: there are lots of opinions on beekeeping which have been proven wrong decades ago and are still promulgated. See insulation and matchsticks.. Any well run governing body would look at those and make guidelines. Instead they disapprove of bee imports - knowing they cannot stop them :-(

 

[Tremyfro]

Browsing through this thread....there are several things which are clear.
New beekeepers need support and help...not heavy handed criticism. Although it is far from ideal when, carried away with enthusiasm, a person purchases a colony of bees, without taking courses or getting advice.
What we also must be cognoscent of...is that the beekeeper selling, also has some responsibility to ensure they are selling bees to someone who will look after them. It is easy to be misled by an enthusiastic buyer.
Bees , of course, can look after themselves...and if the situation doesn't suit them...they will scarper. Unlike domesticated livestock which require much more husbandry to ensure health and welfare...bees can forage for themselves...they can reproduce themselves.
However...as beekeepers wanting to keep the bees in our hives and enjoy the honey harvest...we do quite a bit of interference...and that is where we come unstuck. That is where books, mentors, clubs, videos, Internet, courses and forums can help our beekeeping education....an education which will never end as there will always be more to learn.
I have found this forum a wealth of information...freely given....sometimes wrapped up in some mild abuse....and leg pulling....but never have I asked and been refused help...and that to me is priceless.

 

[jeff33]

The biggest issue I have had as a newbee is to deal with is early build up colonies and 1 aggressive colony. The guy I got the nuc from has 100's of hives and obviously breed them for 2 purposes early spring build up to sell lots of nucs and still have strong colonies for the flow....no good to me (apart from the honey).

I did a lot of research, joined the local club and did the course before getting my bees but wasn't prepared to sweat that much with these ones!! I have had some good advice on here but like everything else people build-up their knowledge perhaps on the type of bees they have and you have to alter accordingly to fit your situation.

To be fair if I had jumped straight in without any prior bit of knowledge all my hives would be empty by now to the delight of other beekeepers or perhaps the cursing of my neighbour for invading his roof. This is not something I would start out of the blue for sure!

 

[pargyle]

Well ... it does seem to be pretty general then ?

I tend to stick mainly to this forum, my association and a few beekeeping friends around the country so it's the three or four public events that our assoication supports that provide the opportunity to talk to the public and occasionally beekeepers that may (often are !) actually 'off the radar'. I've noticed over the last few years that there is this myth being perpetuated increasingly that 'BEES' are in trouble and I spend a lot of time explaining that 'HONEY BEES' are not that threatened at present as they are mostly in managed hives - and it is the wider bee population and pollinators in general that are having a really tough time. But it takes a bit of explaining as there is so much in the media that is inevitably directed towards honey bees.

But ... what this appears to have done is increased the numbers of people who are leaping into beekeeping with little real forethought or knowledge in the blind belief that providing a home for a colony or two of honey bees in their garden is 'helping'. The reality that then hits (sooner or later) is that there's a bit more too it ...

Unfortunately, there are some pretty unscrupulous individuals that seem keen to exploit these gullible but well meaning people by taking money (lots of money !!) off them and encouraging them to persue a course of action that most of us on this forum would consider to be complete folly.

It was quite difficult talking to the three 'beekeepers' I met yesterday to try and guide them in the direction of some good bee education ... the associations are usually good but many of them run the courses over the winter and they finish with a couple of apiary visits and the best of them have a mentoring scheme ... but what happens to these people who have been sold the idea that a weekends 'intensive' course is sufficient - encouraged by individuals who must just be in it for the money - followed by the promise of some bees at the end of it .... it's the perfect package in the eyes of some ?

I don't know what the answer is .. I was pretty shocked yesterday to find three (I think) completely unrelated instances of people entering beekeeping with less consideration than you would plonk a fairground goldfish in a fish tank ...

I'm never in favour of more legislation - but compulsory registration and insurance for beekeepers may be a partial solution and I think it will come ... compulsory education for new beekeepers would only drive more of them into the clutches of those who currently prey on them. An insurance scheme that delves a little deeper into the ability of the beekeeper might serve a better purpose than the current 'how many hives will you have - this is what it costs' scheme from the BBKA ? It might just make people stop and think ... you would not get insurance for ANYTHING else without some searching questions being asked would you ? A bonafide course could generate a discount on the insurance to reward those who choose to learn might also help. Indeed, one wonders if the current BBKA insurance scheme is equally exploitative as others who seek to exploit beekeepers ?

Perhaps if the various organisations that publicise the 'plight of the honey bee' changed their tune to be more inclusive of other bee species and pollinators generally then it might slow down or stop the 'impulse buys'.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Perhaps if the various organisations that publicise the 'plight of the honey bee' changed their tune to be more inclusive of other bee species and pollinators generally then it might slow down or stop the 'impulse buys'.

Yes, but where's the money in that?
And then they wouldn't be able to use that quote wrongly attributed to Einstein (and which has no basis in fact even if old Albie did say it)

 

[jeff33]

Oh and while I am at it, thank-you to those that have provided me with some very good advice....

 

[Binge]

... you would not get insurance for ANYTHING else without some searching questions being asked would you ?

Nope, because mostly it's not required.
Mountaineering and clarting around in boats for two examples?
Who picks up the tab for all those poor lost souls?

Anyway, we had excellent tutors, a good course with apiary sessions and mentors in our first year and still had a very hectic time.

I agree that this is not a hobby to enter into lightly, but there is such a broad and diverse group of people taking up bee keeping these days that catering for all needs is always going to be a problem

 

[MuswellMetro]

No it doesn't - she leaves, doesn't get very far and the 'swarm' returns to the hive minus the queen.

then a month later you have to work out how to remove her and the wild comb from under the OMF which you had just found as you could not put the monitoring board in

and throwing in a handful of dust to cloud the air...does the queen actual leave or do the workers force her out, i think the later, so if she does manage to crawl back as suggested by some. i have found she is forced out again

anecdotally , i have found many with both old clipped queens still laying and 10 day capped cells in the hive, so why wasn't she forced out ?, was it becuase the bees know she cannot fly

 

[Motobiman]

then a month later you have to work out how to remove her and the wild comb from under the OMF which you had just found as you could not put the monitoring board in

Now then, didnt she leave? . . . . . .

 

[MuswellMetro]

Now then, didnt she leave? . . . . . .

i posted early and edited my OP on what actual happens does she every leave under her own free will

 

[REDWOOD]

I attended a crap beekeeping course looking back now and lucky for me i found Dave Cushman and a few good friends here. It doesn't matter if you get six answers from four beekeepers as sometimes there are two answers to each question, but it's good to discuss and debate.
Fed up with take your money and run courses and one thing for sure it want happen to anyone I'll be mentoring, and will I'm at it a person who doesn't make mistakes is a person that does nothing

 

[midnight sun]

I am the first to admit that I am not the most knowledgeable but the lack of knowledge in some other Beeks astounds me.

I am on several beekeeping facebook groups and regularly you get the most basic questions from those who already have bees such as "Is this my queen" followed by a picture of a drone etc.

I really think that beekeeping should be licensed (in the UK anyway). To gain a licence you should have to prove you have attended a BBKA approved course.[/QUOTE]

Step up private enterpise your number has just come up!
Also, you don't have to look too far to find keepers eager to make a fast buck from the ignorance of beginners. As I pointed out in a PM to a member on here jsut yesterday....not everyone in a white suit (or indeed any other colour these days) is honest!

 

[snelgrove]

Clipped queens do not stop swarming. They merely delay it until the first virgin hatches. Indeed if this is allowed to happen the resulting swarm can be massive.
The swarm returns to the hive afterit realises that the queenisnot present.
A swarm with a queen present is very quiet with only a few bees flying around, you would not notice it. However a swarm which the queen hasn'tjoined the cluster will be noted that bees will running all over the cluster and numerous bees flying around it looking for the queen. A state of distress I would say. They return to the hive. Took 2 and a half hours today.
Clipped queens help in delaying inspections, it's no good trying to stop swarming, swarming is a natural phenomenon, work with the bees putting an exluder under the brood box is ridiculous

 

[MuswellMetro]

I.
Fed up with take your money and run courses

seen several at £400 for a w/e course and one BKA's publicity says 30 to a class @£150 per person for a W/E and they do at least two w/e sessions so that's an income of £9000 per annum just from beginners and they also need to join the BBKA fee is they get Bees in the first year

They train 60 beekeepers a year but the fall out rate is very high

 

[REDWOOD]

That's big business on the backs of some poor soul's ambition to keep their own bees. There should be a law against it. Beekeeping is for everyone with a passion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk