Insulation!!!!!!!!!

[Finman]

A slight correction:
34mm of polystrene is equivalent to 150mm oak. (but that does not affect the vaildity of your argument)

another slight correction: i looked our tables and there was 10 fold insulation value.

We use pruce or pine as " standard dry wood". Never oak. We do not have oak walls.

A normal economical insulation board what we say styrox, it has 5 fold insulation value.
You have 5 fold value. That board has bigger air bubbles and it moves heat better that micro bubble stuff.

 

[user 6228]

another slight correction: i looked our tables and there was 10 fold insulation value.

We use pruce or pine as " standard dry wood". Never oak. We do not have oak walls.

A normal economical insulation board what we say styrox, it has 5 fold insulation value.
You have 5 fold value. That board has bigger air bubbles and it moves heat better that micro bubble stuff.

I was using for polystyrene
λ 0.033 - 0.035W/mK
for wood
λ 0.014W/mK

a value of λ 0.02W/mK i normally associate with PIR or PU foams

 

[Poly Hive]

Getting too tech for me.

If we say that poly (as used in hives) is substantially warmer than wood would that suffice?

PH

 

[user 6228]

Getting too tech for me.

If we say that poly (as used in hives) is substantially warmer than wood would that suffice?

PH

One can say that Brood box of most poly hives is close to the thermal properties of a tree nest. The themal properties of a thin wooden hive are a order of magnitude worse.
I find it hard to justify to myself, stressing any animal so much when it is economically within my reach not to do so.
Derek

 

[BBG]

One can say that Brood box of most poly hives is close to the thermal properties of a tree nest. The themal properties of a thin wooden hive are a order of magnitude worse.
I find it hard to justify to myself, stressing any animal so much when it is economically within my reach not to do so.
Derek

Wholeheartedly.

 

[Finman]

.
It is slow to find values with mobile phone internet, but I found the construction values what they are in human houses.

If we know those values in bee hive with different ventilation systems, we would be much more wiser

U value ........ 2010....... and before 2007 orders

outer wall..........0.17 ...,...........0.24
upper cover .....0.09..................0.15
bottom cover ...0.16................0.14
door....................1.0....................1.4
window...............1.0....................1.4

 

[Beehive]

The summer before last we picked up what was reported as a swarm of bees. The swarm had already gone but what we did find was a rotten old hive on a piece of disused ground that nobody had been near for years. You couldn't touch what was left of the hive for fear of collapse. We brought in a new hive and started dismantling. The frames inside had disintegrated and there was a hugh colony of ants living downstairs. The bees were living attached to the roof. They had drawn masses of beautiful comb. We inverted the roof in our hive and left them overnight to settle.

Insulation? Non existent. There was a gap in the brood box and at least two entrances. The main entrance had disappeared into the ground. You could see daylight from one side to the other. The people who reported the swarm said that they'd seen bees about for a few years so goodness only knows if it was these poor souls, albeit they seemed very healthy and a good strong colony once we got them home.

 

[Finman]

.
Much to learn, like those match sticks under inner cover.
Some one calculated that it is equal 40 x 40 cm hole.

But no upper entrance!

 

[drstitson]

Not quite finman!!!

even working on inner cirumference of top of brood box we have 42cm x 4.

assume a matchstick is 2.5mm thick.

42 x 4 x 0.25 = 42 cm squared vent in top of hive.

 

[Poly Hive]

Far too much in any event as it should be ZERO

PH

 

[Finman]

.
Ok, the size is about 4 cm x 10 cm, or 20 cm wide main entrange gap, 2 x 20

named "oh boy opening". No wonder that UK hives do not need insulation.

 

[richardbees]

I remain surprised by the robust dismissal by some posters of creating a tiny sliver of ventilation space around the edge of the crown board using match sticks!

 

[oliver90owner]

I remain surprised by the robust dismissal by some posters

Ahh yes, that gap. The one, which had you made it earlly enough, the bees would have propolised before clustering for the winter.

That old mistaken maxim 'the beekeeper knows best'. Ha ha.

The bees really do know best, and the more people who realise that working with the bees is far better than against them, the sooner there will be more better beekeepers around.

 

[Andy Duff]

I remain surprised by the robust dismissal by some posters of creating a tiny sliver of ventilation space around the edge of the crown board using match sticks!

 

[For want of a better word]

I notice that if I place a piece of wire gauze over the crownboard feed hole(s) with a couple of carpet tiles as insulation over, the bees bung it up with propollis.
This in an OMF WBC hive with a A. ling. type of bee.
Granddads old felt quilts fitted quite snugly... perhaps felt breathes.

 

[mbc]

I notice that if I place a piece of wire gauze over the crownboard feed hole(s) with a couple of carpet tiles as insulation over, the bees bung it up with propollis.
This in an OMF WBC hive with a A. ling. type of bee.
Granddads old felt quilts fitted quite snugly... perhaps felt breathes.

Ach, a lot of old timers round here insisted on a square of carpet as a crown board, pealing that hairy b*stard back always seemed to stir up the bees !

 

[Finman]

I remain surprised by the robust dismissal by some posters

The bees really do know best......,athat wound.

if they knew, they would kick you to ass

 

[Poly Hive]

If one still believes in matchsticks then Father C and Fairies are not out of mind either.

It was put forward in the "good old days" by a certain organisation as a way to combat damp in hives.

I have just spend considerable funds on improving the thermal efficiency of my business to not an inconsiderable success. It included removing holes from the premises leaking heat. *hint*

Bees love warmth, I promise you this is true.

I was privileged to see the results of the first trials in the UK of ventilated floors, research carried out to improve wintering way before Varroa arrived. More floor ventilation better wintering IF coupled with top insulation.

Matchsticks = detrimental conditions for bees. Challenge yourself to try the better way and see what happens. Dogma is just that, dogma.

PH

 

[richardbees]

Oliver

"which had you made it earlly enough, the bees would have propolised before clustering for the winter."

I always do - and they never propolise, so they appreciate it!

Finman - UK winters tend to be humid unlike your dry Arctic cold.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

PH you are older than I thought, BA told me of his trials with ventilated floors in I think the 30s!