Imports of nucs and packages

[Chris B]

Imports into England and Wales in 2010 was over 400 according to Bee Base. Imports into Scotland don't get reported there, but no doubt the stats are available somewhere. But it certainly happens: http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Imports-of-honey-bees-.6358744.jp

What's the concencus of this practice? And is it a growing trend? If you are ordering bees from a specialist supplier do you even know where they are coming from? Some people are making big promises.

And what can be done to discourage this?

 

[Firegazer]

I'd recommend buying bees from people who appear regularly on this forum and have good reputations.

I've bought 2 colonies that way and would do so again.

They may still die due to my bad management or bad luck, but I'm sure GWW and PH aren't going to sell me something thrown together at the last minute or something that a beginner had no chance with.

For me, it's one of the things this forum is very valuable for: I'd rather buy hives, equipment and bees from people who are clearly doing it themselves and know what's what than from a supplier who could be more concerned with making quick money.

I guess having the section on buying and selling nucs and colonies is a good way to reduce imports - if a better product is available, there's less desperation to buy 'just anything'.

FG

 

[RoofTops]

And what can be done to discourage this?

By UK reared nucs being more readily available from UK suppliers.

Bees and queens are being imported to meet demand. I would think it is as simple as that - supply and demand.

 

[Norton]

Imports of packages

Hi Chris,
Seems like a lot of misinformation in the paper - imports of package bees and colonies are not allowed from third countries like New Zealand. Here is a link to the regulations:
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=127
The imports from New Zealand are restricted to queens and a maximum of 20 workers ONLY.
So, I don't know how Heather Hills is going to import packages in to the EU.
Best regards
Norton.

 

[Chris B]

Hi Roger,
I was surprised too. But they found a way to do it legally. I think what you see on the regulations website is only a summary and there must be a loophole or something.

 

[Poly Hive]

I don't think HH were the only bee farm in Perthshire to import packages from where ever.

As for the answer for the amateur it is in education.

By that I mean that over wintered queens are given the value they deserve.

Many do not understand that an over wintered queen is just as good as that seasons queen, and no less a force for good in avoiding swarming.

PH

 

[gavin]

Chris

I understand that the Scottish imports generally have gone through an English port and so are reflected in NBU's figures.

However imports from an EU country with appropriate paperwork are not required to be registered, and so are not logged. There is also likely to be a degree of illegal importing which is not recorded either.

I've been hearing - from a source I trust - that one of the sellers of nucs brought queens from a small hive beetle area into a country adjacent to an EU country, then across the border into the EU, from where the bees were shipped to the UK to be sold on to an army of waiting beginners. No, I can't drop hints about which bee trader we're talking about, just that some of the practices out there are appalling and driven by greed.

What can be done to discourage this? Keep ramming home the message that local bees are best. Encourage local beekeepers to raise stocks for beginners. Encourage high standards in nucleus raising. Use association apiaries wherever possible to supplement this. Keep pointing out that bee disease problems are being spread internationally, that there are rogues out there, that new pests and diseases are usually not detected until they've become established and impossible to eradicate.

Gavin

PS Norton - I can assure you that packages *were* imported in 2010 from Third Countries by more than one bee farmer and in quantity! Whether or not that was legal was something I hadn't questioned until now, but I will be doing so. Perhaps unusually for a UK newspaper article on bees, the article was completely accurate. Except maybe the rotten fish smell, but that depends on your sense of smell perhaps. Maybe I should say that I'm not in the 'no sympathy whatsoever' camp, but this is one of these quick fixes that will cause more long term problems.

 

[Norton]

However imports from an EU country with appropriate paperwork are not required to be registered, and so are not logged. There is also likely to be a degree of illegal importing which is not recorded either.

They are registered in the TRACES system by the exporting EU country, or at least they should be. Nothing leaves here (Cyprus) anyway without first being checked and recorded. I had a check from the inspectors in November and have another one this month and another one in March with samples being taken.

Imports of packages and nucs from third countries are ILLEGAL, that is the law and how come these imports were allowed???????? This sort of practice endangers us all.

Norton.

 

[oliver90owner]

an over wintered queen is just as good

I am inclined to disagree with that statement. In a lot of cases they are far superior, as an integrated and expanding colony.

Less likely the queen will be superceded on a whim. Will build up into a productive colony in that same year. Are an early start to the season, etc, etc.

All may occur with the early imported package, but are less likely to be as integrated as a well established nucleus of bees.

Agree with the 'in education' too. Just that some have none at all and simply go out 'blind' to purchase whatever is available at the best price. 'Bee owning', rather than 'beekeeping', may be a better description for quite a few new starters recently, more likely not the new starters, on this forum before getting their bees.

Regards, RAB

 

[Norton]

I see on Beebase that 352 nucs were imported from Cyprus. I think that this is a mistake in the statistics. As far as I know, NONE were exported from Cyprus to the UK. But I will check on Monday morning with the vets department.
Best regards
Norton.

 

[mbc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris B
And what can be done to discourage this?

Nothing that will have any effect . All well and good to educate new beekeepers about whats 'best' but as things stand availability is the most important factor as the laws of supply and demand govern the industry.
The only way to discourage these imports to any extent IMHO would be a fundamental change of attitude at a governmental level, to stop treating the issue of bee health as a joke and to seriously review how porous our borders are and to change legislation to recognise that our island nation is quite distinct to to the EU with regard to free trade when it comes to something like biohazards coming in. Cant see it happening myself

 

[gavin]

Nothing that will have any effect . All well and good to educate new beekeepers about whats 'best' but as things stand availability is the most important factor as the laws of supply and demand govern the industry.
The only way to discourage these imports to any extent IMHO would be a fundamental change of attitude at a governmental level, to stop treating the issue of bee health as a joke and to seriously review how porous our borders are and to change legislation to recognise that our island nation is quite distinct to to the EU with regard to free trade when it comes to something like biohazards coming in. Cant see it happening myself

There is a lot that could be done. Stop over-hyping bee losses and get supply and demand back in kilter. Establishment of codes of practice for raising and selling nucs for sale which become universally accepted. Trying to get every recognised seller of beekeeping equipment and bees to only use accredited raisers. Make it known widely that there are good, accredited sellers and there are rogues.

The authorities could do more in the way of gathering intelligence and prosecuting rogues. Fine them until the pips squeak, splash their name(s) all over the papers, get them locked up if at all possible.

What about a quality mark for commercial honey producers? 'This honey was produced by beekeepers who have signed up to the agreed Sustainability in Beekeeping Policy of the four major UK beekeeping association and the Bee Farmers Association'. Sustainability in that the bees are locally raised from locally-bred queens, with legal medicines, using practices that minimise the need for medication, with bees adequately fed in times of need in a way that does not risk the purity of the product. There should be no excuse for losing most of your bees in winter. It just flies in the face of modern food production systems to be so unsustainable.

Surely the supermarkets would go along with such an industry initiative to reward those acting responsibly?

 

[mbc]

There is a lot that could be done. Stop over-hyping bee losses and get supply and demand back in kilter. Establishment of codes of practice for raising and selling nucs for sale which become universally accepted. Trying to get every recognised seller of beekeeping equipment and bees to only use accredited raisers. Make it known widely that there are good, accredited sellers and there are rogues.

The authorities could do more in the way of gathering intelligence and prosecuting rogues. Fine them until the pips squeak, splash their name(s) all over the papers, get them locked up if at all possible.

What about a quality mark for commercial honey producers? 'This honey was produced by beekeepers who have signed up to the agreed Sustainability in Beekeeping Policy of the four major UK beekeeping association and the Bee Farmers Association'. Sustainability in that the bees are locally raised from locally-bred queens, with legal medicines, using practices that minimise the need for medication, with bees adequately fed in times of need in a way that does not risk the purity of the product. There should be no excuse for losing most of your bees in winter. It just flies in the face of modern food production systems to be so unsustainable.

Surely the supermarkets would go along with such an industry initiative to reward those acting responsibly?

Gavin,
I applaud your positivity and optimism, but as I said, I cant see it happening myself.
You think the BFA would get behind an initiative that effectively discourages queen imports ? Surely they'd lose half their membership
Authotities doing more ?!!! Pie in the sky, as I mentioned previously, this would entail a "fundamental change of attitude at a governmental level, to stop treating the issue of bee health as a joke"

 

[Chris B]

That's defintely along the right sort of lines Gavin.
I wonder if Rowse, Co-op, Innocent, and others who have thrown money at beekeeping in a haphazard manner, might have enough money left in the pot to fund and support such an initiative?

 

[Chris B]

You think the BFA would get behind an initiative that effectively discourages queen imports ? Surely they'd lose half their membership.

Not necessarily. On a level playing field nobody has a disadvantage and supply and demand would adjust prices accordingly. But yes there would be objections from beekeepers across the spectrum.

 

[gavin]

That's defintely along the right sort of lines Gavin.
I wonder if Rowse, Co-op, Innocent, and others who have thrown money at beekeeping in a haphazard manner, might have enough money left in the pot to fund and support such an initiative?

It would be great if they did.

Would the BFA go along with it? Really don't know. But if not it should still be done anyway as there could be pressure from the major retailers to fall into line.

 

[Poly Hive]

There are two quite distinct issues here.

One is the Bee Farmer hit by disease, in serious financial trouble and looking desperately for imports to save his ruination.

The other is the keen to get going amateur who wants bees. And from personal experience even with my contacts I had to buy imports to make a new start.

Then we have the BBKA busy shouting that bees are in serious decline etc etc etc. The sheer numbers on here show that up for the nonsence that it is.

Now we look at supply and demand between the eyes, and it is not going to blink, as it is the rule. We who want bees are subject to that rule, and it is very simple. As no one in the UK supplies home grown packages in any serious quantity where do you turn?

What is needed is action at a government level. If imports are banned then we need to work out a plan to provide bees to who ever in the UK.

Oddly the people who can apply this pressure are in fact us. The amateurs: as we have the numbers to badger the polys with. Politicians respond to pressure, and it takes numbers to apply pressure.

When imports are banned and pre such a ban we as a country, need to decide which bee we are going to make use of and improve. And most of you with experience know full well that is no small matter.

PH

 

[Norton]

Gavin
PS Norton - I can assure you that packages *were* imported in 2010 from Third Countries by more than one bee farmer and in quantity! Whether or not that was legal was something I hadn't questioned until now

If you have proof that this was done, you are obliged to forward this information on to DEFRA to act upon. Imports from third countries are prohibited, for a good reason, and if some one has acted illegally and you are withholding proof/information about this, then you are in a precarious position. My advice is to contact DEFRA ASAP with your information.
Best regards
Norton.

 

[gavin]

If you have proof that this was done, you are obliged to forward this information on to DEFRA to act upon. Imports from third countries are prohibited, for a good reason, and if some one has acted illegally and you are withholding proof/information about this, then you are in a precarious position. My advice is to contact DEFRA ASAP with your information.
Best regards
Norton.

Jeezo!! *I'm* in a precarious position! LOL!!!

You don't understand. We were told this by officials as well as the beekeepers themselves. I will be asking questions. The people I should report this to are these officials themselves, who themselves regularly talk to DEFRA. I'm not jumping to conclusions about law-breaking quite yet.

 

[RoofTops]

I may be missing something obvious but the importation of bees from third countries is permitted, subject to various rules. The enclosed Fera document lists these third countries, which are on page 7. It is dated 2009 so may not be up to date - for example Hawaii is included, which is now not the case.