Import of NZ bees into UK

[oliver90owner]

Back on topic? Black bees are an entirely different matter.

I couldn't care a hoot what strains are where, it is the importation of packages of bees that irks me. Checking through a few queens from a reliable source is one thing, whole colonies is another. Defra could not avoid the foot and mouth fiasco and I would trust them about as much with bees.

I do not wish to import queens either, have no desire to requeen each year, nor do I have to buy in a queen of a 'pussy cat' temperament to placate the neighbours. they are all out there in the UK, available but just not in the right numbers at the right time.

It is well known that the Australian imports to the US were a stop-gap measure as most are probably gone after two seasons. Not sure of the seasonal losses but it was nearly as bad as the ccd losses in some cases.

So the risks are there and the returns may well be short lived, if colony losses are high over winter.

I am against packages of bees from anywhere. I am also anti imported queens.

RAB

 

[Black Comb]

 

[Poly Hive]

I note the ignoring of the improvement and breeding. So that negates the comments.

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

They are also very interested in the idea of a label/grass roots marketing campaign to raise awareness of 'Backing the Bristish Bee'....it seems it is up to US, the FORUM to come up with a way/label/idea of promoting this and getting them to accept it and promote it for us (and of course for forum members to sign up to using a label for all their honey sold to go onto the reverse of their jars)

S

Yes well done you are onto something with this Somerford but have a logo by all means but simple text is I think the way forward on the front of the label a sort of catch phrase its to the point and needs no explaining with a bit of education on the back.

 

[Friar Tuck]

I think a logo and simple text is a good idea. but how do you police who uses the logo ! and how do you know the beekeepers using the logo dont have imported bees or if one was to capture a swam how would you know it was not imported bees ? and how do you stop a beekeeper importing bees but still using the logo

 

[Tom Bick]

Not able to police it it will be on a very small scale and you are right it is open to abuse in the same way people can get the cheap honey from local supermarkets and re pack it and sell it on at farmers markets at inflated prices.

To me the reason I like the idea is that in a very small way helps to educate people about bees it will make them realise we import bees and the dangers of that. It’s a bit like the saying from small acorns.. and who knows what may come of it.


Somerford has persisted this far motivated from personal interest it has to be said and has the River Cottage team radar twitching and they will look into it and if he wants to embarrass the coop in my opinion has to take his fight to Facebook threatening them with this forum (sorry Mark) will have them falling off their chairs in laughter but mention River Cottage and Facebook and they may sit up and listen.

 

[Friar Tuck]

Facebook is a very powerful tool. Remember christmas number 1. Rage against the machine, Just to stop x factor becoming number 1. It was started by a couple in somerset i think as a joke..

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE FOR CHRISTMAS NO.1
868,168 members

 

[Finman]

Back on topic? Black bees are an entirely different matter.

...

I am against packages of bees from anywhere. I am also anti imported queens.

RAB

Englismen have exportet Black Devils to all continents of the world. Every where they have abandoned by beekeepers when better bees have imported to the continent.

Why don't you stop cedar importing too? You have straw enough to build hives.

40 years ago we had many importing tolls. It was denied to import honey before our own honey is finish. It was really nice to sell jars with best price in those old days.

International honey price is now about 2 US dollar per kilo. It is UK £ 1,2 / kg



.

 

[oliver90owner]

re pack it and sell it on at farmers markets

If there are any suspicions of imported honey being sold as 'local produce', Trading Standards would be very interested to hear. That is one reason for the labelling regulations.

Not rocket science, to check honey for pollen grains of foreign plant species. This practice was rewarded with a fine of near £100,000 in the not too recent past, when a Norfolk(?) supplier was adulterating honey with imports and selling it as produced in the UK.

Regards, RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

There was a piece this weekend in something I read about fakes, and one of the fakes found in the food line was of course honey. Unscrupulous people will fake anything. By fake in this instance there was foreign honey in the "English" branded jar.

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

I don’t know this for definite rab but I bet it has happened

Its not just unscrupulous individuals was it not the case if my memory serves me right we had a ban on honey from China and batches tested found to be honey from China?

Also have a chap at our local association and he had a big time beekeeping friend over from New Zealand and he came to the conclusion after visiting many large supermarkets that we have more Manuka Honey on the shelves than they can supply?

 

[oliver90owner]

I once worked for an essential/aromatic/etc oil supplier (both in bulk and bottled). The first thing that happened to expensive oils was that they were cut with cheaper (often Chinese) products to increase the profit margins. Sometimes components were added to give the same peaks on an analysis machine so that later checks would appear as 'normal'. Like 'essential oil (2%) in sweet almond oil' - the sweet almond oil was, in fact, a much, much cheaper substitute.

The 'antibiotics scare' of Chinese imports was gotten around by people who bought it cheap, elsewhere on the world markets, and slowly blended it to reduce the antibiotics to within acceptable limits. Tests could easily be done on honey, with even small amounts of antibiotics, to look for pollens from China.

It is often a case of 'read the label carefully' but at most Farmers' markets the produce must be locally sourced and if the label is misleading in this area, large fines are dished out to the perpetrators, when caught.

RAB

 

[Somerford]

Hi all

Not a usual day for me to be online but chronic back pain and pain from being bunged up by the pills I was taking has resulted in a day at home trying to do a load of sums for the business. Anyway, I am having a break from that for 5 mins and see that the thread is progressing ....

I am working with Friar Tuck to come up with a suitable label, nothing with any sort of national flag on it, mostly text and I hope a link to a future web page, possibly here on the forum, that explains in greater detail what it is all about, 'IT' being only buy honey from local or national food outlets/markets that have the logo on, so ensuring the honey is produced by naturalised UK bees, and not reliant on overseas Nucs or queens.

Yes - I know this will rely upon the good nature and HONESTY of the user, but I am not intending to set up some sort of 'Soil Association' thing that needs registration and a subscription. Perhaps, in time, all producers using the label could have a little symbol next to them on the forum ? I don't want to suggest a list of producers who use the label, other than by voluntary admission, as I know we are not a 'profitable' business (or at least at hobbyist level anyway), and we wouldn't want to draw too much attention to us from H M R & C ! (apologies if anyone here works for them. Ooops, now I've said too much!)

Anyway, watch this space. Hopefully the finalised designs will be here in the not too distant future, perhaps with a poll to rank them by popularity if we come up with more than 1 useable design. Then it's over to you all to utilise !!

Oh, and I propose to make the files MSword friendly, probably Avery Label Wizard Pro friendly too (as that's what I use) but FT might be able to come up with some other formats, eg PDF if he is a techo-genius !

regards and thanks for the support....I am genuinely surprised at who has shown their support for this and I thank you, it keeps me going amidst back pain !

Oh, and should have an update on the BKF meet soon.

regards

Somerford

 

[BKF Admin]

Also have a chap at our local association and he had a big time beekeeping friend over from New Zealand and he came to the conclusion after visiting many large supermarkets that we have more Manuka Honey on the shelves than they can supply?

I was told the same story regards spuds:
A large supermarket chain selling more Jersey royals than the island produce in a season..
p.s well done Somerford for the hard work you are doing for us.

 

[Friar Tuck]

Hi all

FT might be able to come up with some other formats, eg PDF if he is a techo-genius !

Indeed

Files such as
.PSD .Ai .EPS .JPG .TIFF .GIF .PDF and or any others you request

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Indeed

Files such as
.PSD .Ai .EPS .JPG .TIFF .GIF .PDF and or any others you request

ASCII for some of the oldies?

 

[Friar Tuck]

buy local honey



have a look here

http://www.ascii-art.de/ascii/ab/bee.txt

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

buy local honey



have a look here

http://www.ascii-art.de/ascii/ab/bee.txt

Touché!

 

[Scutellator]

Why don't you stop cedar importing too? You have straw enough to build hives.

.

Finman, you just took the words from my mouth.
They are not afraid of importing fungis and pests along with the timber.

Ban of the imports will not decreace the price of the queens, neither will increase their quality, nor will prevent the introduction of new diseases.

 

[nelletap]

The range and quality of discussions on here continues to amaze me. For me it is like a tennis match; I turn my head (opinions) from one direction to another as each learned forum member adds their viewpoint and I learn so much.
There is a bit of a conflict, though, brought about by the surge in interest. I finally got bees last year after trying to overcome various hurdles for about 8 years. For a newbie, trying to find any bees was a bit difficult and most seemed to be at a huge cost. There was a chance of a swarm from a local association but the agony of waiting in hope with equipment all in place was worse than pregnancy. With demand so high then the temptation to import must be high. The talk of breeding standards was persuasive but then the contradiction was that if a swarm was accepted, it's origins could be very vague and already the suggestion that they were of a swarmy disposition.
In the old days, when bees were kept in skeps which were burnt at the end of the season, how did the species survive?
Tricia