Import of NZ bees into UK

[hedgerow pete]

you are proberly looking at say 4,000 queens and nucs alone from mike, sorry he who should not be named,

and i would think that norton could easily breed that amount a year, but i doubt that they all come to blighty.

add a few direct sales and general others i would guess at say 5,000 queens and 1,000 nucs, does anyone want to adjust those figures

may be we could do a freedom of information to the import office asking how many do come through each year, if someone lets me know how to do it i will have a go at them if you want

 

[Poly Hive]

From FERA.

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/public/BeeDiseases/euImportReport.cfm

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/public/BeeDiseases/importReport.cfm


PH

 

[peteinwilts]

I have to respect the skills of people try to preserve the Black Bee and admire them greatly.

May I ask what is the point of preserving the Black Bee if the only way it will survive is via artificial insemination.

Accepting foreign bees with open arms whilst artificially breeding black bees is very short sighted and not far short of hypocritical.

 

[BKF Admin]

My understanding why AM is not protected in the uk is because it is not a native species,it was introduced in the first place by man.

 

[peteinwilts]

In the USA, for example, they are falling over backwards to get permits to import genetic material to use in crossings with the stock already in the USA. Much stock in the USA is hybridised and if we leave out the African element in the equation they do not have the problems that the UK has.

Should I totally ignore the program that has been repeated several times regarding the collapse of wordwide bee populations. The program was centred in Amerca who apparently losing thousands of colonys and having to replace them from imports from Australia.
Is this an old problem that has gone away?!?

 

[Somerford]

The thing is the AMM/BB breeders have to use AI to prevent their gene pools being affected by local beekeepers unwittingly flooding the area with drones from colonies with overseas queens/packages.

S

 

[Somerford]

From PH links to the FERA database : 2010 figures

90 out of 123 consignments of queens or nucs were inspected....but it doesn't say how many of each consignment was inspected. So in 2010 33 consignments were not inspected and sailed merrily into our shores.

A mere 452 nucs came in from Cyprus and Spain, but nearly 7300 queens were imported from 11 EU countries. 2430 queens from Aus/NZ/Hawaii

So at a concersatively priced £150/Nuc and £25 a queen (retail prices) this is worth £67,000 and £243,000 respectively in turnover.

There is, clearly, a huge demand for both queens and nucs in 2010

Demand exists - we need to supply UK bees.....any takers ?!

regards

S

 

[Tom Bick]

Also not clear are the dates the consignments were sent this will indicate time of demand.

And if the consignments are all from one mating station or made up from several mating stations.

But good information all the same PH

 

[Somerford]

On another point, I received a phone call from River Cottage today.

It would seem that at this stage they wouldn't be minded to look into the issue...BUT...we had a very good discussion about bees as you can imagine and what they WOULD be willing to do is publicise the issues for us via their 450,000 email database, Facebook and Twitter !!

I think this is a REAL RESULT !

They are also very interested in the idea of a label/grass roots marketing campaign to raise awareness of 'Backing the Bristish Bee'....it seems it is up to US, the FORUM to come up with a way/label/idea of promoting this and getting them to accept it and promote it for us (and of course for forum members to sign up to using a label for all their honey sold to go onto the reverse of their jars)

Perhaps we need a poll to find out if members would be willing to either print their own label (using a pre-designed image/text) or purchase the labels pre-printed and how many would be willing to use such a device on their jars ?

Like has been said here earlier, there is no point in us all getting bothered about the issue raised here if we can't be bothered to work together and sign up to doing this small thing.

I also await a response from the Co-Op ..... my emails got bounced back today, they obviously have some guard bees on their doorsteps !

regards

S

 

[Friar Tuck]

I would be happy to design it for you No Probs

 

[Somerford]

Friar Tuck - PM sent !

S

 

[Haughton Honey]

My understanding why AM is not protected in the uk is because it is not a native species,it was introduced in the first place by man.

And nobody has a clue as to whether it still exists in it's purest form or not................

 

[Norton]

May I ask what is the point of preserving the Black Bee if the only way it will survive is via artificial insemination.

Well if you want to make any progress at all with the breeding you have to control the mating and it is only possible with AI or a mating station. If you are trying to rely on open mating, then your bees will just become members of the general population in your area. Unselected mongrel bees are a bigger challenge to the AMM enthusiasts than the imported material, which at least comes from selected genetics and not genetics that just able the bees to survive from year to year, swarm and produce mediocre crops of honey are aggressive etc etc.

 

[Poly Hive]

If it does not exist in a pure form then I spent years measuring wings that were clean off the BIBBA charts for nothing.

The UK is a much bigger place than some realise.

I had to laugh at the BIBBA peeps attitude when they finally made it to Scotland, albeit just Perthshire, and discovered that really they might have got on a bit better if they had actually taken on board their own theories and begun in the north...

But to be honest that debacle just about sums it all up.

PH

 

[Haughton Honey]

If it does not exist in a pure form then I spent years measuring wings that were clean off the BIBBA charts for nothing.

The UK is a much bigger place than some realise.

I had to laugh at the BIBBA peeps attitude when they finally made it to Scotland, albeit just Perthshire, and discovered that really they might have got on a bit better if they had actually taken on board their own theories and begun in the north...

But to be honest that debacle just about sums it all up.

PH

But where are they?

Does anyone know of an apiarist who keeps them or are we just left with bee breeders who are trying to breed something that they believe MIGHT be like the original strain (i.e. their version of it)?

Does anyone even know what a pure, unadulterated AMM actually is apart from a wee beastie with wings of a certain size and shape?

I fear that BIBBA is not far off being similar to the team that Adolf Hitler purportedly set up in the late 30’s to hunt for the Holy Grail.

A nice idea, but does it really exist?

 

[Poly Hive]

I certainly had them, as did the Stokelys in Perthshire.

Bernard had them at Craibstone too, and found a very quiet strain he bred under the name of "The Maud Strain" from the village of Maud where he found them.

I lost mine due to a rather unfortunate set of circumstances, namely a farmer who took an ill will and burnt the hives. Still a very sore point as you can imagine.

So as recently as the last ten years I had them and I am so suppose they have vanished? I think Mr Abrahams on Coll might disagree for one.

BIBBA sorry to say in my experience have great theories but seem strangely unwilling to get on with it. When I spoke to Dave Cushman at Stoneleigh last year to ask if there had been any progress since I had spoken to him there the year before over a BIBBA forum he said sadly that the committee had decided against it and by doing so by deciding not to improve their communications. Odd hmm?

They certainly are around north of the border.

PH

 

[madasafish]

Well if Pure AMM exist in Scotland , BIBBA have no purpose in life.. so their failure to communicate is entirely understandable...

 

[Poly Hive]

Now how do you work that one out?

BIBBA? Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Association.

PH

 

[Norton]

Simple question: How long has BIBBA existed and what has it achieved? Other than slag imported bees of which. in their obviously blinkered beekeeping. have absolutely no idea what they are or what they are capable of. Their main function seems to be to lay the blame for the lack of progress at the door of imported bees ........

 

[madasafish]

BIBBA's purpose in life is

"BIBBA was founded in 1964, by Beowulf Cooper and others, for the conservation, restoration, study, selection and improvement of the native and near-native honey bees of Britain and Ireland (Apis mellifera mellifera L.). "

Period...

http://www.bibba.com/



So if they ignore the real thing, it must surely be because it removes their purpose to exist...