Import of NZ bees into UK

[greatbritishhoney]

Yes gbh we all have a different approach to things go for the letter get it approved by all concerned debate the wording and then send it.

It was mentioned a few posts back that it is easy to be a armchair activist start the debate over the letter but a good number of people have already been sending in letters and emails with their concerns for a good few days weeks now.

I mentioned a few posts back that this place is a talking shop and actions speak louder than words so debate the letter but perhaps also send individual letters.

I totally agree - there's no reason why one approach has to be exclusive to the other. We can send a group e-mail and individual letters etc - the more the better.
Just on the subject of armchair activism (incase any of that is directed at me), I think you'll find that I (Andy Brown) was the first person to post on the Plan Bee facebook page and have been suggesting on my own Facebook Page (Great British Honey) that people should write to the co-op on the subject. You will also note that, on my own website, I sell honey produced by british beekeepers who put a string emphasis on ethics. I put my money where my mouth is - armchair activist I am not.

 

[Into the lions den]

lets see what ITLD has to offer,,, if them queens arnt getting imported thats me happy, trouble is its not just ITLD we need to get a ban on all imports now where do u start with that!

You will never get a ban. The country is not a bee museum, and the industry, at both amateur and professional level, will be in difficulties if the source of bees dries up, and even less of our honey requirement will be met from local produce. Bad news for the UK, good news for Argentina and China, even France and Spain.

I have been at meetings with officials, albeit of the Scottish govt rather than UK, and the line from on high is that it aint gonna happen. Despite the BBKA stating unanimous opposition, this is plainly untrue, and a long way from being true. It may be true in terms of amateur association votes having a majority against, but it has always been thus. No change. The BFA is not opposed and probably never will be. In that respect there is a dicotomy between the two sectors, though very blurred when you get down to individual people. Some BFA members oppose imports, some BBKA members approve.

'Spitting the dummy', which was done not so long ago by the BBKA rerpresentative at an important meeting just marginalises your interests and allows others to decide policy in your absence. Ranting gets you ignored too, as does wrong information.

 

[Tom Bick]

No intention to cause confusion over the term arm chair atavists Andy.

In this debate we are all armchair atavists as we can do it from the comfort of the arm chair no need to take to the streets just yet lol.

Good look with the letter

 

[Into the lions den]

Away for the day.

I will be away for much of today dealing with bee affairs elsewhere. I will look in from time to time to see if anything worthwhile has been asked or raised.

The letter writing and facebook campaigns were anticipated many months back. The issue of justifying the stock has been gone over many times already.

I remain at a loss as to just why OUR project should be subject of such vitriol, when the previous set up was as it was. No mention either of the bee farmers migrating into the area just over the fence from Down Ampney either, with bees of all heritages. One I was talking to only on Sunday moves about 200 into the area in a few drops, just adjacent south and west of Airfield farm. He uses assorted bees ( 'Heinz 57' was his description), and was warm and friendly and offered a lot of advice. Is there a degree of 'stab the interloper' going on? Any weapon will do? Getting on to me about neonics is an example, when I am a beekeeper, not a farmer.

The project will be an example of modern equipment and husbandry. Many many people will enjoy visiting and seeing alternative ways to go about things. In the medium term there will be a mobile extracting plant all can have their honey done in, a bee feed stock on site to stop everyone getting ripped off elsewhere, selected equipment and supplies available at realistic prices (the appliance boys will be next in line with the knives now), a collection service for equipment to be taken for sterilisation and return ready for use totally cleared of any latent problems, wax rendering. Pollinator awareness services for farmers and growers through the soon to be started Scottish Bee Services (despite the name it will be available nationally.) All will be available from this project.

 

[RoseCottage]

ITLD,
Hope you have a good day today..even I hope to see my bees today so things are looking up.

I guess your project is of concern because of the import issue. It must be said though that starting from the concerns expressed in the first entry of the thread things have moved a long way. Much of that has been down to your own openess and clarification of some of the activities.

There are still genuine concerns that I can see (perhaps more clearly after 65 pages) and some are specific to your work and how it may specifically impact other initiatives. Others lie with the way the Co-Op have approached the use of bees as a marketing ploy and left themselves with conflicting ethics. Many object to this hypocrisy...whether the company are aware of it or not. Finally, there is the elephant in the room of people's inability to halt imports and the likely outcome for the future. This may no doubt frustrate and inflame some but the only effective way to address this is to work with the public projects and try to mitigate and then provide an alternative to imports.

In an honest way I have nothing personal against you or anyone else. I learnt what joy bees can be from a very wise bee farmer and understood his experience was vast.
Still the issues are valid and deserve to be raised now rather than later,

Have a great day,
Sam

 

[BKF Admin]

a collection service for equipment to be taken for sterilisation and return ready for use totally cleared of any latent problems, wax rendering. Pollinator awareness services for farmers and growers through the soon to be started Scottish Bee Services (despite the name it will be available nationally.) All will be available from this project.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/06/25115313

 

[RoofTops]

Well done the Jocks. I suppose the EFB/AFB scare last year must have helped bring this about but what a pity the same isn't happening here in the South. (A sterilisation service I mean, not EFB/AFB - we already have them.)

 

[RoseCottage]

Rooftops,
A sterilisation service?!? Here in the South...can I nominate a few of Andover's finest burgers (and yes I did mean the spelling) ...



Sam

 

[DanBee]

Actually RT the cooperation is happening two ways, what is hindering it is the red line on the map marked Scotland on one side and England on the other. The disease outbreak shook the politicians up to realise that it's all one landmass regardless of administrative divisions... maybe if it had been a blue line the bees would have seen it, but they ain't never going to see a red line on a map anyway

The NBU, for example, are funded by England & Wales. I heard that as soon as the disease problems became apparent in Scotland, the NBU had significant numbers of lab technicians and inspectors on standby to go and assist - all they waited for was a formal request for assistance from the Scottish governement and a commitment to underwrite the expenses incurred. I have a lot of time for the NBU because they provide a lot of support to UK beekeepers, despite financial constraints.

The Bee Farmers Association is a good example of what a truly UK-wide beekeeping organisation can represent; members from across England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, with a broad church of bees, equipment, management techniques etc. accommodated. There are no politics as to choice of hive, no politics as to strain of bee. When the FERA Healthy Bees project was kicking off and the BBKA had a hissy and stormed out, the BFA (and other organisations) stayed put and continued to negotiate reasonably and from within, rather than lobbing stones from the sidelines.

Each year the BFA have a spring get-together, attended by about 40% of the membership. Last spring we were in Scotland, and saw three commercial outfits, including Murray's (ITLD). This weekend they're all coming to Devon!

Murray impressed us all by standing one evening after dinner and talking for an hour completely openly on the disease outbreak, answering questions with the sort of frankness and detail we have seen here. Some of the attendees were his local competitors, but all were welcomed.

When we visited Murray's operation, he threw open the doors and told us to look at everything. Next we were bussed off to one of his apiaries nearby, to see the state of the bees, and again it was an 'open anything you like' approach. Being beekeepers, of course, the fascination of looking in yet another hive of bees was too much to avoid

This is why I said very early on in the thread that if Murray McGregor was involved, I had confidence that the project would be well thought through and above board.

We are waiting to see how the northern (Scottish) sterilisation plant is used once established. If there is a demand for such a service in the south of the country, or indeed other regions, then we can use their experiences to save a lot of time & effort in reproducing the set-up around the country.

 

[fox403]

he sounds a loverly person danbee get him breed amms and we will all give him a kiss

 

[greatbritishhoney]

The letter writing and facebook campaigns were anticipated many months back.


I remain at a loss as to just why OUR project should be subject of such vitriol, when the previous set up was as it was. QUOTE]

Just want to pick up on these two points.
It's interesting that the letter writing and facebook campaigns were anticipated many months ago. Why is that? Could it be that you and the co-op realised that this "looked bad"?

The reason why your project is in the firing line is simply because it is the one that has been brought into the spotlight here. I'm sure if we were all initially aware of the various others doing similar things we'd be unhappy about that too. But what really goes against you in this is your association with a major retailer. We all know that beekeepers and beefarmers have differing opinions / methods etc, but when they team up with a retailer who promotes themselves as the saviour of the bees they have to expect to come under extra scrutiny. You must have anticipated this and I think your incredulity looks somewhat like mock outrage.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

As FERA have been mentioned once or twice on here, let's not forget that their advice is....
"Try to avoid sourcing bees (particularly queens) from outside your own area".

I suppose the NBU is wrong too, as well as the BBKA, Ron Hoskins and the Co-op's own Plan Bee?
We're all wrong?

 

[Friar Tuck]

The letter writing and facebook campaigns were anticipated many months back.


I remain at a loss as to just why OUR project should be subject of such vitriol, when the previous set up was as it was. QUOTE]

Just want to pick up on these two points.
It's interesting that the letter writing and facebook campaigns were anticipated many months ago. Why is that? Could it be that you and the co-op realised that this "looked bad"?

The reason why your project is in the firing line is simply because it is the one that has been brought into the spotlight here. I'm sure if we were all initially aware of the various others doing similar things we'd be unhappy about that too. But what really goes against you in this is your association with a major retailer. We all know that beekeepers and beefarmers have differing opinions / methods etc, but when they team up with a retailer who promotes themselves as the saviour of the bees they have to expect to come under extra scrutiny. You must have anticipated this and I think your incredulity looks somewhat like mock outrage.

 

[Into the lions den]

It's interesting that the letter writing and facebook campaigns were anticipated many months ago. Why is that? Could it be that you and the co-op realised that this "looked bad"?

Exact reason as told to them by me was that it happening is inevitable. Not because we had anything to hide, because we do not. It is just that almost no matter where you go or what you do, there will be those who are against almost anything new, especially if it is something new in their kingdom. I did warn them that we would get 'the end of the world as we know it' type of responses from some, and also to expect them to portray themselves as an angry majority. Only thing anticipated but not been mentioned yet is an actual petition.

But what really goes against you in this is your association with a major retailer.

Actually, my association (and contract) is with Britains biggest farmers. The honey goes into Co-op farms who do with it as they wish. I have no actual connection to the retailers, and the honey will be moved on, through a designated packer, in a manner Farms decide. This is of course commercial information I need not discuss, but you all wanted openness.


You must have anticipated this and I think your incredulity looks somewhat like mock outrage.

'At a loss' and 'incredulity' are rather different levels of emotion. I meant what I said, and outrage (mock or otherwise) is not a thing I feel other than against those who suggest arson attacks.

**

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Actually, my association (and contract) is with Britains biggest farmers. The honey goes into Co-op farms who do with it as they wish. I have no actual connection to the retailers, and the honey will be moved on, through a designated packer, in a manner Farms decide. This is of course commercial information I need not discuss, but you all wanted openness.

Oh come on, this really is a smoke screen and we've been here before. The bottom line is you are working with the co-op (whichever arm of that organisation it may be), and that brings the additional scrutiny. Portraying the co-op as this undefinable entity really doesn't do your argument any good.

 

[Into the lions den]

[QUOTEOh come on, this really is a smoke screen and we've been here before. The bottom line is you are working with the co-op (whichever arm of that organisation it may be), and that brings the additional scrutiny. Portraying the co-op as this undefinable entity really doesn't do your argument any good.[/QUOTE]

It is not a smokescreen, it is the actual factual basis of my relationship with the group.

I am not bothered by scrutiny. You get a lot of information from me I need not give. Where is the smokescreen in that?

 

[Into the lions den]

Well done the Jocks. I suppose the EFB/AFB scare last year must have helped bring this about but what a pity the same isn't happening here in the South. (A sterilisation service I mean, not EFB/AFB - we already have them.)

The scheme was my personal concept and I am still the one behind the sterilising part of it. It is a cooperative intended to be non profit making, and will accept frames and hive parts from all over the UK. If it goes well we may set up a branch in England too.

Gavin on here is also involved.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

[QUOTEOh come on, this really is a smoke screen and we've been here before. The bottom line is you are working with the co-op (whichever arm of that organisation it may be), and that brings the additional scrutiny. Portraying the co-op as this undefinable entity really doesn't do your argument any good.

It is not a smokescreen, it is the actual factual basis of my relationship with the group.

I am not bothered by scrutiny. You get a lot of information from me I need not give. Where is the smokescreen in that?[/QUOTE]

The co-op is the co-op is the co-op - simple as that. You ask why your project was the subject of such vitriol and I suggested that it was your involvement with a major retailer - Seems pretty obvious to me, just like a poultry farmer with plans to build a large cage barn would get more scruntiny if he was doing it in partnership with tesco.
You can't be the face of the co-op one minute and then be the third party of a third party when it suits.

 

[RoofTops]

Thanks for the clarification. We'll get organised like they are in a number of beekeeping countries in Europe yet!

 

[DanBee]

The co-op is the co-op is the co-op - simple as that.

Never that simple. Anyone who's ever worked for large multinationals and/or groups of companies will understand that. Large monolithic company structures are not as effective as small, autonomous companies operating under the corporate umbrella.

As I've said before, Plan B is operated by the Coop Membership Services, who seem to be one big marketing department and very much separate from Coop Farms who are farmers.

You might like to check with Coop Funeral Services what their position is on imported queens and use of neonicotinoids, since as a Coop company they will be intimately involved, surely? Heaven knows what's in embalming fluid these days!