Import of NZ bees into UK

[dilys]

Please check your facts before assuming that I or anyone else practice a particular style of management, or have a particular ethos towards our bees

Welcome then to the ranks of those of us who would like to persuade the Co-op to halt this importation.

 

[drumgerry]

Around here PH I suspect most of our bees are in large part AMM. A random colony ie nothing special in our association apiary tested at 70% AMM from its wing morphometry last summer. I didn't do the test and know very little about wing venation but this is what was reported to me.

I for one would not want a NZ queen heading one of my colonies. How exactly would they cope fresh from their balmy homeland with a winter which can last from October to April during which temperatures drop regularly to minus 20 and snow is the ground much of the time (we still have some just now). Locally adapted British bees (whether full AMM or not) which can cope with the conditions for me every time. I'd be interested to hear how Murray's NZ queens cope with a winter in inland Aberdeenshire or will they not be wintered there?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

ITLD - "I have the responsibility for this project and am in partnership with the Co-op in doing so. The scheme in no way threatens Plan B and can run happily alongside it"

Happy to answer for the co-op back then.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have done wing measurements on an apiary of 100 colonies by Elgin and they were off the BIBBA scale on the Discoidal shift.

I bought 15 I think it was of the best ones.

PH

 

[Crg]

Just on the subject of armchair activism (incase any of that is directed at me), I think you'll find that I (Andy Brown) was the first person to post on the Plan Bee facebook page and have been suggesting on my own Facebook Page (Great British Honey) that people should write to the co-op on the subject. You will also note that, on my own website, I sell honey produced by british beekeepers who put a string emphasis on ethics. I put my money where my mouth is - armchair activist I am not.

Armchair activism was directed at anyone who is sitting around complaining about the situation of queen imports yet doing nothing to fix the underlying cause.

Writing on facebook pages is exactly what I would consider armchair activisim.
It's easy to rabble-raise on facebook, you don't have to present facts or a balanced view, nobody will check.

 

[Crg]

Until raising queens is seen as normal and not a black art the wall is right there.

I couldn't agree more.

If only a little more energy was spent by others on this thread trying to improve this situation rather complaining about others, we'd all be better off.

Unfortunately it would involve leaving facebook alone, and getting out and working with the bees (and probably other people).

 

[Crg]

I have done wing measurements on an apiary of 100 colonies by Elgin and they were off the BIBBA scale on the Discoidal shift.

Phenotypes again?

 

[RoseCottage]

Crg,
Can I ask what is wrong with armchair activism per se?

I suspect that actually we can all only do so much - as I said in another thread a few minutes ago - some people start fires, some people put them out.

I applaud Somerford for starting one of the most interesting threads on the forum that I have seen. Admittedly, like many on the thread at times he has been off topic and perhaps crashed and burned a few times. He is not alone in doing that in this discussion.

What he and others have achieved is 17,000 reads of the thread and around 700 posts.

There is never going to be a right or wrong on this one just, as usual, shades of grey.

One thing is for sure, there are many people who are able to act as armchair activists for all sorts of reasons, then there are some who will engage, and then possibly even fewer who will act. Finally one or two will manage to make a positive change (and they may come from unexpected quarters).

These issues (some real, some misunderstood, and some plain potty as F**k) have given an awful lot of people something to think about and to take a personal position on.

Well done all you Armchair activists for bringing them to everyone's attention.



All the best,
Sam

 

[Into the lions den]

It wass a genuine question - I'm interested who is answering on the Plan Bee page

Not a problem. I am assuming that would be Naomi. Actually just been sending some stuff over to her.

Naomi is not a beekeeper, and has several hats to wear, I understand one of them being point of contact for Plan Bee. She will only be answering in that capacity, and any actual beekeeping questions will be referred over to me for an answer. So far so good........but when my answers get edited and put through a PR makeover by non beekeepers they may not quite come out as they should. You are probably still better coming to me direct.

Farming questions, such as the neonics questions are not best answered from within the Plan Bee structure..............when I told them I was being asked that they were surprised..........go to Farms for an answer on cultivation (inc pesticides) issues.

 

[RoseCottage]

ITLD,
Any news about your hints last night?
All the best,
Sam

 

[drumgerry]

Crg - there's nothing shifty or underhand about posting on Facebook re this. I hesitate to say it but this is the 21st century - get with it man! And I think you'd be surprised how effective it is. Look at the responses from the co-op. They're even talking about getting involved with BIBBA!

As to armchair activism: our association is embarking on a queen rearing programme for the first time this year with yours truly leading it.

 

[Somerford]

Somerford, Albeit I am on your side re importation, you are starting to come across a bit control freaky!! your starting to put RAB in the shade.

LOL - anything but. I resent the accusations that somehow I/we are some sort of armchair activists, that we are single issue followers, that we are all bark and no bite. That some of the posts have wound up certain individuals, well I wonder why.....? Is this the first real campaign to make public what alot of beekeepers at a local level have long thought...and why has it come to this..? Well there is a tipping point in any walk of life that makes an individual start to take action because they are disenfranchised by other's behaviour....and I suppose it is the apparent hypocrasy of the Co-Op/Plan B operation that actually made me bark !

regards

S

 

[Crg]

Crg,
Can I ask what is wrong with armchair activism per se?

As I said before, it makes people feel good without having to do anything that will actually solve the underlying causes.

Anyone can rabble-raise on Facebook. One Welsh MP says "scrap the Red Arrows" and suddenly 60,000 people have joined a page "Stop the Red Arrows Being Disbanded".

They aren't being disbanded.

It's much more effective to get up off your chair and do something yourself, like get a group together to raise queens, or encourage your local club to do more queen raising, and generally improve the state of queen breeding in this country.

But then it actually involves doing something.

Expecting other people to do it for you, or just writing and complaining can be seen as lazy and ineffectual.
I know people with very busy lifestyles etc who make an effort with breeding better bees and getting more people involved.

 

[Into the lions den]

I for one would not want a NZ queen heading one of my colonies. How exactly would they cope fresh from their balmy homeland with a winter which can last from October to April during which temperatures drop regularly to minus 20 and snow is the ground much of the time (we still have some just now). Locally adapted British bees (whether full AMM or not) which can cope with the conditions for me every time. I'd be interested to hear how Murray's NZ queens cope with a winter in inland Aberdeenshire or will they not be wintered there?

200 colonies just did that. One loss so far (seems to have gone queenless), the rest looking very good. I was out checking some of the smaller ones that had syrup left from autumn, and you can see a pic on the photos page. They have it seems wintered a little better than our home bred bees. They did very well last summer too, really nice clover workers, and then they belted it in at the heather.

Minus 20 is actually VERY rare.......but this last year we got a real belting at the start and end of the year.

These queens come from New Zealand sure, but if you have read the rest of the thread you will see that their true parentage is much closer to home, and they are only bred in NZ to take advantage of their seasons. They are perfectly well able to cope with UK winters. People are persistently coming back to them being NZ bees, and associaiting that with the yellow bees that have come from there in the past, but these are a different beast altogether.

Not sure which associaiton you might be a member of, but among those visiting this coming summer is Inverness........you might be able to tag along.

In case you might thiink my story is skewed, three other outfits here have these bees too, and all are so enamoured with them they want more.

 

[Crg]

Crg - there's nothing shifty or underhand about posting on Facebook re this. I hesitate to say it but this is the 21st century - get with it man!

I am very "with it" man.

As to armchair activism: our association is embarking on a queen rearing programme for the first time this year with yours truly leading it.

Excellent

 

[Into the lions den]

And I think you'd be surprised how effective it is. Look at the responses from the co-op. They're even talking about getting involved with BIBBA!

They are also perfectly aware that the page is set up to give a false appearance of unanimity, when in fact no such situation exists. I was talking to the appropriate people in 'Farms' this afternoon about that. Any contact I have with Plan Bee goes through Farms, and it is not much. Not yet seen any *new* statement from Plan Bee involving BIBBA, but do not see why that would be a surprise anyway. It would always have been on the cards.

 

[drumgerry]

Murray the association I'm in is....er, Moray!

 

[Poly Hive]

They have mentioned this:

"Hi, to all those concerned about our Farms importing 600 queens from New Zealand as we seek to get even more hives going. We have actually looked into sourcing native British strains but these are very very difficult to identify , never mind source. In fact we are working with Bibba to try and map remaining populations. If anyone thinks they have pure strains let us know, we can facilitate a genetic analysis."

I am not commenting further on the BIBBA aspect.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

If anyone thinks they have pure strains let us know, we can facilitate a genetic analysis.

Problem solved.....loads of them in Scotland.

 

[RoseCottage]

One of the issues is not AMM I believe but biosecurity and the impact on established initiatives like Rons...